Jump to content

Is Panavia Tornado still on Razbams radar?


Jaktaz

Recommended Posts

Well, dunno if it is the greatest, MW1 would be pretty cool tbh.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQqfxiGgd8

 

Here a really interesting video from someone who got himself a tornado first gen INS. :D

The map projector is really amazing. For 1980 that is such a great feature.

 

Interesting for Razbam as well probably, the guy has reverse engineered some other components of the tornado computer suite.


Edited by microvax

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 112
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I would love to have Tornado. In fact I would love to have all Cold War fighters.

But if some 3rd party studio would have to do a Tornado, it would most likely be the GR1, due to available documentation. And GR4 would be anachronistic in DCS World.

 

Even then, it's a complex, twin seat attack aircraft. So it needs multi-crew, smart AI crew, and we are still waiting for AG radar in DCS World.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, dunno if it is the greatest, MW1 would be pretty cool tbh.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQqfxiGgd8

 

Here a really interesting video from someone who got himself a tornado first gen INS. :D

The map projector is really amazing. For 1980 that is such a great feature.

 

Interesting for Razbam as well probably, the guy has reverse engineered some other components of the tornado computer suite.

 

Damn! I was about to post that video. That's really awesome, 80s technology is fantastic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the latest and greatest version is the British GR4 thumbup.gif

 

You're sure about that? How about the ASSTA3-Tornado:

 

27994642315_682e282e66_o.jpg

 

;)

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YAY! tangible information :thumbup:. Thanks for sharing.

Windows 10 Pro 64, I5 4690k @4.6GHz with CAPTIAN 240EX AOI, Samsung 850 EVO ,G Skill Ripjaws 16G RAM, Nvidia GTX 970 STRIX, MSI Z97 GAMING 5, WD Blue 1TB HDD, Seasonic M12 II EVO psu, Track IR 5, Pro Flight X-55 Rhino H.O.T.A.S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what´s been done so far in this project

 

Nice, thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

What variant are you going to do?

 

Is this project safe, or does it depend on further developments (by other 3rd partys)?


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The important thing is that we get a tornado.

I personally would prefer a cold war (=golden era) tornado gr.1 / ids.

My favourite version is the marineflieger variant with the old paint sheme (grey / white). Favourite theater is the Baltic sea environment and favourite mission a low level night anti ship attack in the cold winter against Russian fleet with kormoran missiles.

The Desert storm theater is also very cool.

I think, razbam should also considering to create theaters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The important thing is that we get a tornado.

I personally would prefer a cold war (=golden era) tornado gr.1 / ids.

My favourite version is the marineflieger variant with the old paint sheme (grey / white). Favourite theater is the Baltic sea environment and favourite mission a low level night anti ship attack in the cold winter against Russian fleet with kormoran missiles.

The Desert storm theater is also very cool.

I think, razbam should also considering to create theaters.

 

I think a classic Cold War Tornado IDS (GR.1) would be the most probable variant. The modern variants (GR.4 / ASSTA3) are still in service and at least some of their systems classified.

 

Theaters are always cool and nice to have, but a developer needs the respective ressources to make them (manpower).

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An ECR would be awesome because its one of the few planes with an ELS.

 

A GR4 would indeed be cool with the brimstones stormshadows and a TGP, but TBH a GR1 would be very cool already and tbh even cooler due to the glorious map projectors. :D

 

And if you have a WSO which fixes the nav for you with Map/radar map overlay, then you really do not need LGBs from 200ft. xD

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Twice the GR4s in service though, and it's supposed to retire soon so we shouldn't have to worry too much about classified systems

 

If the aircraft has features that are as base for modern aircrafts, then that data will be classified.

 

But many things would open up, but it is like tactics and IFF systems, you just don't reveal those even when they are old legacy systems or old tactics.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An ECR would be awesome because its one of the few planes with an ELS.

It would indeed be a very nice addition, at least in theory, because I'm not quite sure how well the ECR could be done for DCS, because of the limited EW system DCS offers and classification of the ECR's systems.

 

A GR4 would indeed be cool with the brimstones stormshadows and a TGP, but TBH a GR1 would be very cool already and tbh even cooler due to the glorious map projectors. :D

 

And if you have a WSO which fixes the nav for you with Map/radar map overlay, then you really do not need LGBs from 200ft. xD

 

Oh yeah, the famous map projectors. What a fine piece of technology :)

 

If the aircraft has features that are as base for modern aircrafts, then that data will be classified.

I was just about to say this :thumbup:

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tornado GR1 and IDS are practically the same. The GR1 got a laser spot tracker later on, something the IDS never did afaik.

 

GR1 and IDS are limited to unguided weapons apart from ASM and SEAD missiles.

British one also has JP233 cluster dispensers which are dedicated anti runway devices, german counterpart is the MW1 which holds much more submunitions, also can be used with anti vehicle and just mine submunition to block off battlefield space.

 

Both got terrain maping radar and terrain following radar which allows any configuration to be run at 200ft radar alt hands off. Tornado is fully FBW which also allows it to fly attack profiles fully automatic.

 

 

They field modified the TIALD into the GR1 during the gulf war iirc, so it also could laze for itself.

GR4 got an build in FLIR in the chin but that isnt used anymore really since later gen targeting pods got integrated. the GR4 didnt initially get modern MFDs for the WSO and also the one for the pilot is just some basic things overlaying the original map projector afaik. Later models got classsic MFDs though.

 

obviously over time the INS got upgrades such as laser ring gyros which reduce drift to a bare minimum and GPS.

 

ECR is the SEAD variant. Having a built in emiter locator system its especially designed against mobile SAM and other RADAR g2a threats. Triangulates the position to keep it simple, which allows it to do real SEAD and just fire the HARM at that area so if a RADAR goes live it will be destroyed or simply never turns on.

 

The GR1 uses the ALARM missile which has comparable lackluster performance to the HARM if you believe the usual reports. Also the GR1 never had an ELS afaik so it could not fire the missiles at a inflight spoted SAM site if the radar did go off.

 

The GR4s later got brimstone, stormshadow and a whole range of GBUs integrated.

The IDS got Taurus and GBUs integrated.

 

Thats pretty much what I do know.

 

Given the 3d model is at that detail stage yet its probably an Tornado IDS, since it doesnt have the built in FLIR of an GR4 neither the laser spot tracker of an GR1. And honestly, if we get an early tornado an IDS would be glorious because of the MW1.

  • Like 1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could someone lay out the differences in capability's and weapons between the different versions? I really like the Tornado but I don't now much about it :/.

 

Sure :)

 

There are 3 basic variants of the Tornado:

- Tornado IDS (Interdiction Strike): The ground strike / interdiction variant. In use by UK, GER, ITA, SA

- Tornado ECR (Electronic Combat Reconnaisance): The SEAD variant. In use by GER, ITA

- Tornado ADV (Air Defense Variant): The interceptor variant. Used by UK, ITA (leased from UK), SA

 

In more detail:

Tornado IDS

The Tornado IDS (designated GR. in the UK) is a supersonic (mach 2+) fighter-bomber (more bomber than fighter) that was designed to penetrate hostile airspace by staying low (very low!) to fly under the radar. It is arguably the best low level fighter aircraft in the world (besides the F-111), even today. The outstanding low level performance is achieved by two things especially:

- The variable-sweep-wing, that allows to change the wing swept to be changed to very steep angles, almost resulting in a delta wing which leads to very stable flight at high speeds, especially at low level.

- The navigation equipment which consisted of one of the first (maybe the first?) moving map displays and the navigator in the backseat who can take care of navigation, so the pilot can focus on not hitting the ground.

The Tornado is equipped with a ground mapping radar that can be used to detect and engage targets as well as for navigation. A speical feature for the navigator (or WSO) was the ability to project the radar picture on the map display.

The Cold War Tornado could be equipped with various bomb types and was especially configured for loft bombing. It also possessed two 27mm Mauser revolver cannons. The same cannon is still used in the Eurofighter. It is also equipped with AIM-9 infrared A-A missiles for self defense (replaced by IRIS-T in german service now).

The first version of the Tornado IDS was pretty much the same for all three nations (UK, GER, ITA; SA came later and is not one of the original Tornado partners), but each nation developed upgrades on it's own. That caused the Tornado to develop differently in the three partner nations over time resulting in increasingly different avionics and weapons. The upgraded modern Tornados are able to use various types of LGBs and JDAMs, cruise missiles (Taurus for GER, Storm Shadow for the others), ARMs (AGM-88 HARM for ITA and GER, ALARM for UK [withdrawn]) and Brimstone anti tank missiles (UK only so far). They can also be equipped with TGPs and various recconnaisance pods. Another capability of the Tornado that was especially important during the Cold War is the ability to deliver tactical nuclear bombs. That was important to all three Tornado nations, because GER and ITA, which are not nuclear powers participate in NATO's nuclear sharing programme which enables them to use foreign nuclear weapons. That capability remains today and at least the german tornados (don't know about ther others) are beeing upgraded to be able to use the most revent variant of the B61 nuclear bomb which was converted to a JDAM to allow high-precision nuclear attacks. They were also equipped with anti-ship missiles (AS.34 Kormoran for GER and ITA, Sea Eagle for the UK) during the Cold War but they were withdrawn from service in the 2000s (not quiet sure about Italy here). Another weapon that has been withdrawn from service are various cluster munitions that have been used during the Cold War. They had to bew withdrawn in response to the 2008 convention on cluster muntions. Worth mentioning here are the MW-1 (GER, ITA) and JP-233 (UK) submunition delivery systems, which consisted of large dispenser pods containing hundreds of small bomblets which would be deployed by pyrotechnical charges in a low level pass over the target (see picture of MW-1).

300px-Mehrzweckwaffe_1.jpg

 

Tornado ECR

The Tornado ECR is only used by GER and ITA and is the SEAD variant of the Tornado. It misses the cannons to make room for a sophisticated Emiitter-Location-System (ELS) that enable the ECR tornado to detect, analyse and locate (by triangulation) radar threats and provide extended target information for their AGM-88 HARM anti radiation missiles. The german ECR (as well as the german IDS since it's first upgrade in the 90s) uses the Tornado Self Protection Jammer, developed by a german-israeli joint venture, which was highly regarded for its jamming performance (not sure about other nations). The ECR and IDS Tornados (not sure about the ADV) are also equipped with chaff/flare dispenser pods.

 

Tornado ADV

The Tornado ADV was developed by the UK as a replacement for their F-4 Phantoms and Electric Lightnings in the Interceptor role. Their purpose was to intercept soviet bombers comming around Norway to either attack NATO convoys in the atlantic or perform a (nuclear) strike on the UK. For this purpose the Tornado ADV was equipped with more powerful engines, the Foxhunter A-A radar 8which replaced the A-G radar) and Skyflash SARH A-A missiles.


Edited by QuiGon
  • Like 1

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@microvax

Good summary, but I have some remarks :)

 

Tornado GR1 and IDS are practically the same.

There is a common missconception with the name. IDS and GR aren't different variants. They're the same ground attack Tornado variant. The brits just decided to give it a different name according to their national naming conventions. But all three IDS Tornados (UK, GER, ITA) were the same, even though the brits used a different name. Over time the three countries developed their own upgrades, so today neither of these 3 variants are the same. The modern british IDS (GR.4) is different than the modern german IDS (often called ASSTA3 which is the name of the upgrade) and the modern italian IDS is also different.

 

The GR1 got a laser spot tracker later on, something the IDS never did afaik.

Again, GR=IDS ;)

What you're saying is, that the british IDS got a laser spot tracker, while the other two nations' IDS did not. But that is also not quiet true, because they also got LST as part of their TGPs. ;)

 

The GR1 uses the ALARM missile which has comparable lackluster performance to the HARM if you believe the usual reports. Also the GR1 never had an ELS afaik so it could not fire the missiles at a inflight spoted SAM site if the radar did go off.

I'm not familiar with the ALARM missile, but the AGM-88 HARM that is used on german and italian Tornados can be used without an ELS. Its efficency is just restricted in that case, because it has to rely on its onboard sensors, but that allowed it to be used on the Tornado IDS as well, not just on the ECR.

 

The GR4s later got brimstone, stormshadow and a whole range of GBUs integrated.

The IDS got Taurus and GBUs integrated.

Only the german IDS uses Taurus. The italian IDS uses Storm Shadow like the british IDS (GR.4) as far as I know.

 

:)


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to learn more about the Tornado you may want to listen to this podcast: http://omegataupodcast.net/212-the-tornado-adv/

 

Thanks for the link. It's indeed a very interesting podcast :thumbup:

But be aware, that it is about the Tornado ADV, UKs interceptor variant, which is pretty different to all the other Tornado variants and probably not the one we will get in DCS. ;)


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@microvax

 

Ye I know they were initally the same thats why i wrote they are practically the same. :D

They got the LST first thought through the ad hoc chinpod. AFAIK, since the bucaneer lazed initially with the tiald iirc.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ye I know they were initally the same thats why i wrote they are practically the same. :D

They got the LST first thought through the ad hoc chinpod. AFAIK, since the bucaneer lazed initially with the tiald iirc.

 

Yeah, that's right. The german Tornado got this ability much later with with the recent introduction of the Litening TGP. Don't know about the italian Tornado.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...