Is 1990s Ka-50 variant going to be removed?

There is a line in the newsletter:

As with A-10C Warthog 2, Ka-50 Black Shark 3 will replace the current Ka-50 Black Shark 2, but existing owners of Ka-50 Black Shark 2 will get a significant discount for version 3.

I have nothing against paying for the new, more capable 2000s variant of Ka-50 but i would like to have also an older, current, 1990s variant for older scenarios and campaigns like Chechnya war.

cheers

I think the "Free" cockpit update will be for the 1990's version we currently have.

The BS3 version upgrade will be the newer one.

I assume old owners will get to keep the BS2, and upgrade to the BS3 for a small fee, while if you you buy BS3 new you get both.

But thats just my guess.

I think it just means that when you buy BS3 that you will no longer have the BS2 module. So you wont have two icons for BS2 and BS3 but just BS3.

But with the BS3 module you will very likely be able to configure the Ka-50 in a way to make it effectively like the one in the BS2 module.

I might be wrong about this, so if you are a Kamov expert - please chime in :)

The current version we have is a late upgrade with ABRIS and a new b&w CRT monitor. Im pretty sure that our version is from the early 2000's. (number 24)

Don't know how much "newer" the upcoming DLC is, but they are probably pretty close development wise.

1990's variant would mean no ABRIS and the old style CRT monitor.

Point is that there are not too big differences between the current Ka-50 and upcoming Ka-50 variant as they are both "updated" individuals within a limited timeframe.

They belong to the same era.

What I'm also interested in is whether Republic Campaign and Memory of a Hero will continue to be playable with the BS 3 module. Without its extensions. Or will both campaigns be adjusted so that they can only be played with BS 3?

But apart from that, I think it's just great that the KA-50 is finally brought up to date. I am extremely happy about that!

I am really curious about the "significant discount" part.

Any ideas on how much?

I might be wrong about this, so if you are a Kamov expert - please chime in :)

 

The current version we have is a late upgrade with ABRIS and a new b&w CRT monitor. Im pretty sure that our version is from the early 2000's. (number 24)

 

Don't know how much "newer" the upcoming DLC is, but they are probably pretty close development wise.

 

1990's variant would mean no ABRIS and the old style CRT monitor.

 

Point is that there are not too big differences between the current Ka-50 and upcoming Ka-50 variant as they are both "updated" individuals within a limited timeframe.

They belong to the same era.

We have the Ka50 #25 (Former #15). Here are the pictures of the the real Ka50 that our Black Shark is modelled on: https://walkarounds.ru/index.php?/category/aviation-ru-kamov-ka-50

Our Ka50 is from April 1990, is the 5th Ka50 built and was named #15 (Bort number, later renamed #25). It would become the standard for mass production.

The Ka50 that we will get, BS3, is a semi-fantasy venture (no single Ka50 had all the equipment at the same time) into a 2003 version of Ka50. ;)

Also, one could hope they will keep the two variants alive, esp. for us who are purists (realism 100%). It would be best to have the two variants separate, but it also means 2x updating. We will see what the final decision will be.

 

Our Ka50 is from April 1990, is the 5th Ka50 built and was named #15 (Bort number, later renamed #25). It would become the standard for mass production.

29 November 1999 command was issued to form BUG by Debuty defence minister and Armed forces armament chief, to test KA-50 in real combat. The 344 test and training center had only #24 left in flying condition so #25 was issued for BUG as second KA-50. In early 2000 a KABRIS was installed to both and over 150 test hours were performed in 344 training center to validate new systems, tests ended July 2000.

24th November 2000 BUG was commanded to deployment.

About mid-February 2001 combat tests were completed and feedback and results were collected.

New design for glass cockpit, president-S, A-A weapons and FLIR etc were drafted for a new standard, that third KA-50, the #26 under construction in Arsenyev factory. But funding was cut in 2002-2003 and it was left unfinished as project got ended. In 2005 Russian defense minister S.Ivanov issued command to restart KA-50 production and speedup KA-52 development, one KA-50 was ready for evaluation for first serial production standard in February 2007 but 2008 the whole KA-50 project was cancelled and it left only KA-52 to be built.

There is likely only one KA-50 with glass cockpit and all other features from the project.

Our KA-50 #25 is fifth prototype and from 2000, before all other upgrades planned to it have.

And ED is trying to build now that first serial production model that would have been fielded next to KA-52 in Russian military today, forming the flights where KA-52 is the lead and KA-50's act as wingmens.

Our KA-50 doesn't exist as serial production but only as prototype.

I am really curious about the "significant discount" part.

 

Any ideas on how much?

Likely at least -50% if not little more.

I personally would hope -75% as it is such sale that you do not see normally.

And for A-10C update for same thing. As after all both will go away from sale as current versions, so if someone want to have both current and coming versions, they should by them now in COVID-19 sales.

29 November 1999 command was issued to form BUG by Debuty defence minister and Armed forces armament chief, to test KA-50 in real combat. The 344 test and training center had only #24 left in flying condition so #25 was issued for BUG as second KA-50. In early 2000 a KABRIS was installed to both and over 150 test hours were performed in 344 training center to validate new systems, tests ended July 2000.

 

24th November 2000 BUG was commanded to deployment.

About mid-February 2001 combat tests were completed and feedback and results were collected.

New design for glass cockpit, president-S, A-A weapons and FLIR etc were drafted for a new standard, that third KA-50, the #26 under construction in Arsenyev factory. But funding was cut in 2002-2003 and it was left unfinished as project got ended. In 2005 Russian defense minister S.Ivanov issued command to restart KA-50 production and speedup KA-52 development, one KA-50 was ready for evaluation for first serial production standard in February 2007 but 2008 the whole KA-50 project was cancelled and it left only KA-52 to be built.

 

There is likely only one KA-50 with glass cockpit and all other features from the project.

 

Our KA-50 #25 is fifth prototype and from 2000, before all other upgrades planned to it have.

And ED is trying to build now that first serial production model that would have been fielded next to KA-52 in Russian military today, forming the flights where KA-52 is the lead and KA-50's act as wingmens.

 

Our KA-50 doesn't exist as serial production but only as prototype.

Our Ka50 #25 (#15) is originally from April 1990, and yes she was upgraded afterwards. Also, our Ka50 existed in a serial production variant, but since it was decided that Ka50 would be made a two seater, our Ka50 #25 went along to be testbed for systems that would later be implemented on Ka52, such as for example Vitebsk, BKO, and many other ones. There were also a lot of current systems testing as well as basic tests on newer cockpit layouts. To know these things, you have to read Cyrillic and read Russian documents, there is basically zero to none info in English about Ka50. On our Russian side, we have much info on it and it´s progress.

You are wrong about the Ka50 with glass cockpit, the only and only Ka50 to receive glass cockpit was Ka50 #18, and that was in early 1990´s. The glass cockpit was very much a test primarily for what would later be Ka52. A proposed new generations avionics suite and system. There were no other Ka50´s that had a glass cockpit. Also, Ka52 production was solidified before 1996, the first helicopter was already rolled out that year. At this point it was known that Ka50 was to be a testbed for systems for Ka52, and not a operational weapons system, not in the army (not airforce) anyways. Serial production of Ka52 started in 2008, so where you got the info from that there was a Ka50 with glass cockpit back then, I don´t know, but it´s false.

Also, I might as well mention that counter to what many people in the west believe, there is a misunderstanding as to why Ka52 was chosen as the final attack helicopter from Kamov, and why the Ka50 venture didn´t go any longer. There are many false beliefs, e.g. that it was because there was too much workload for a single pilot to cope with the current systems it had onboard that the Ka50 became a two seater. It´s wrong. The reason why Ka50 didn´t progress any further was because of future systems and upgrade capabilities, along with changing tactics within the army. As with any military project, one looks at the potential of an airframe and considers possible upgrades in the future. Kamov proved with Ka50 that the automatization was at the point where it could relieve the "gunner" of duty. It all could be handled by the pilot, and indeed the psychological stress-tests proved that the pilot of a Ka50 had no higher stress-level than a frontline fighter/bomber aircraft pilot. However, with regards to future upgrade potential of the airframe (it was known that more systems would come), as well as changing tactics, it was considered practical to change the helicopter to a two seater such that the aircraft could adapt to now an evident change in military doctrine, and upcoming systems-upgrades to Ka52. It´s a side note, but an important one, as it seems that many believe the demagogy spread by the internet. ;)

As to discount, we have neither been told or given any estimates on the Russian forum, nor here, thus unknown. All we know is; "Heavily discounted price", whatever that means.

Google Translate

… You are wrong about the Ka50 with glass cockpit, the only and only Ka50 to receive glass cockpit was Ka50 #18, and that was in early 1990´s. The glass cockpit was very much a test primarily for what would later be Ka52. A proposed new generations avionics suite and system. There were no other Ka50´s that had a glass cockpit. Also, Ka52 production was solidified before 1996, the first helicopter was already rolled out that year. At this point it was known that Ka50 was to be a testbed for systems for Ka52, and not a operational weapons system, not in the army (not airforce) anyways. Serial production of Ka52 started in 2008, so where you got the info from that there was a Ka50 with glass cockpit back then, I don´t know, but it´s false.

 

Also, I might as well mention that counter to what many people in the west believe, there is a misunderstanding as to why Ka52 was chosen as the final attack helicopter from Kamov, and why the Ka50 venture didn´t go any longer…

@zerO_crash, it's useless to explain all this, because there have already been repeated attempts to explain it all earlier (for example, and more). They just don't want to hear anything. Probably people just like to do self-comfort, and deceive themselves and others, afraid to part with their illusions. I'm already trying to simply not respond to all this demagogy. :)

@zerO_crash, it's useless to explain all this, because there have already been repeated attempts to explain it all earlier (for example, and more). They just don't want to hear anything. Probably people just like to do self-comfort, and deceive themselves and others, afraid to part with their illusions. I'm already trying to simply not respond to all this demagogy. :)

 

Original in Russian

 

@zerO_crash, всё это бесполезно объяснять, ибо были уже неоднократные попытки это всё объяснить ранее (например, и ещё). Они просто не желают ничего слышать. Вероятно людям просто нравится заниматься самоутешением, и обманывать себя и других, боясь расстаться со своими иллюзиями. Я уже стараюсь попросту не реагировать на всю эту демагогию. :)

Я не могу не согласиться с вами, к чёрту всё. Они никогда не поймут. :thumbup:

They just don't want to hear anything.

Я не могу не согласиться с вами, к чёрту всё. Они никогда не поймут.

You paint us all with a very wide brush.

You paint us all with a very wide brush.

Don´t mean to be rude, and I know there are many people here who don´t participate but still read and skim the forums (just as I did once). I was more referring to those who argued. A good discussion is welcome, but this turned out to a thread of opinions rather than facts. We can discuss much with different points of view, but in this case, it´s a question of whether we know and what was IRL. There´s no room for opinions here. No offence meant :)

I am not sure if this video has been posted here, but it shows President-S complex in very rough workings:

It´s in Russian, but should be understandable. What we don´t know is just how effective the system is. We have a guy over at the RU side who knows much about this system; how far it can detect, what ranges are indicated by the circles on the system screen, what the default position of the IR jammers are, how much they can turn, how fast, etc... He knows many of the intricacies of the system, but he´s not allowed to talk. As mentioned earlier, we don´t know how efficient the system is. @Chizh mentioned they might go ahead with 1/4 missiles will be deflected, but it´s pure guessing, stated by himself. On the video it can be seen that the system deflects multiple missiles, seems to have very high efficiency, but we will never know.

On the video it can be seen that the system deflects multiple missiles, seems to have very high efficiency, but we will never know.

The video is about President while ka-50 planned system was older Vitebsk.

Yes, but the systems are relatively similar, and use the same IR sensors and DIRCM. For any practical purpose, it could be a good estimate for the efficiency of Vitebsk.