Laser rockets

will check

hope ED can create the proper scheme for brm1 soon.

actually no rkt scheme exactly matches brm1

Could you guys for the time being just make it behave like a Laser Maverick?

Is it possible to make it so it flies right into laser without the Maverick autopilot and loft?

If so, the pros. of the L-MAV scheme outweigh the cons. IMO

Pros:

- This swerving bug would be fixed.

- Ability to buddy-lase

- Launcher-ship maneuvers no longer affect guidance of rocket.

- Easier to attack multiple targets via buddy lase and BRM pods with different laser codes.

Cons:

- Rocket won't spin

- BRM may be too accurate. Since spin behavior is not present, less likely to oversteer away from target.

- If MAV AP/loft cannot be removed, missile may be too slow to reach tgt before battery dies at decent range (4.0nm - 4.5nm); obvs. too advanced behavior for low cost SALH rocket.

Its F'ing worse in this patch than it was in the last patch.

2.2 miles and no 'in range' cue on the rocket - then when i do get 'in range' Im off by at least 20 meters. Good luck - you might as well shelf this airframe for A2G until they fix this rocket.

TJ

I can send them in from reasonable distances, but most times they simply do not hit. No matter if I use point or area mode, the missiles still land either too short or go beyond the target. Switching to F6 view still has the effect of making them fly straight and hit better. Hope this gets looked at soon.

//edit: Fun fact - I can hit APC AAV7s fine but on Bradleys I miss almost 100%

will check

hope ED can create the proper scheme for brm1 soon.

actually no rkt scheme exactly matches brm1

Thanks Uboats will leave it in your hands i've attached a track and tacview for the issue.

Tracks seem to be desynced and show me aiming somewhere else but i was aiming at the units but the current behaviour is shown the rocket misses the point or veers off when the parent aircraft turns or makes maneuvers.

BRM tracking problems.trk

Tacview-20200522-155534-DCS-Trainingpg.zip

Thanks Uboats will leave it in your hands i've attached a track and tacview for the issue.

Tracks seem to be desynced and show me aiming somewhere else but i was aiming at the units but the current behaviour is shown the rocket misses the point or veers off when the parent aircraft turns or makes maneuvers.

I've view the ACMI, the MISS is usually occur when the plane is maneuvering at 3-4G. Plz note that, the BRM is currently using a beam riding scheme, which does not support a hard movement for targeting laser, since the rocket may not able to chase the laser beam thus miss the target.

Its F'ing worse in this patch than it was in the last patch.

 

2.2 miles and no 'in range' cue on the rocket - then when i do get 'in range' Im off by at least 20 meters. Good luck - you might as well shelf this airframe for A2G until they fix this rocket.

 

TJ

Plz upload ACMI for further investgating, I've done my test on OB branch today. The BRM is working fine on most case even firing at 4.8NM.

Plz upload ACMI for further investgating, I've done my test on OB branch today. The BRM is working fine on most case even firing at 4.8NM.

But these also miss in straight line, these were working absolutely fine on initial release.

I've view the ACMI, the MISS is usually occur when the plane is maneuvering at 3-4G. Plz note that, the BRM is currently using a beam riding scheme, which does not support a hard movement for targeting laser, since the rocket may not able to chase the laser beam thus miss the target.

why should maneuvering the plane effect the flight of the missile? you can bank 90 degrees and they go off course, they definitely were unaffected by this 2 patches ago.

I've view the ACMI, the MISS is usually occur when the plane is maneuvering at 3-4G. Plz note that, the BRM is currently using a beam riding scheme, which does not support a hard movement for targeting laser, since the rocket may not able to chase the laser beam thus miss the target.

2.7g pull as recorded by tacview too hard? While Im being gentle, the miss occurs during the pullup.

Edit: After reviewing tacviews from last patch I could pull up as far as 3.5g before I'd see a miss. Looks like the rocket got tuned this patch?

TJ

Edit: acmi attached as requested2.7gPullUpAndMissBy3or4meters.acmi.zip

why should maneuvering the plane effect the flight of the missile? you can bank 90 degrees and they go off course, they definitely were unaffected by this 2 patches ago.

2 (maybe 3) patches ago it was behaving like a laser spot tracking rocket- think like a laser maverick. It was looking for a laser spot and it would fly to the laser spot making it one of the most deadly weapons in DCS. You could have maneuvered however you wanted under a spot tracking warhead, and so long as the pod kept the laser on the target, you would hit the target.

About 2 (maybe 3 patches ago now), the dynamics of the rocket were changed and now its a beam riding rocket (think like a Vikhr). And just like the Vikhr on the Su25t, you cant maneuver too hard while the rocket is in flight or the rocket will 'lose' the beam and then miss the target.

This one still has some odd rocket dynamics (anything over about 3.6 miles and the rocket spins very strangely) but I think the majority of pilots (myself included) are just frustrated that the rocket used to be very deadly and its been nerfed. I doubt this was done intentionally, this is probably all based upon feedback from people more familiar with the airframe than I am over how the weapons work. Its kind of the pitfall of buying Open Beta. As people test out the airframe and the airframe evolves based upon feedback, the airframe may not evolve in the direction you like.

This is definitely the case for me and the BRM. I was loving so many very deadly, basically small mavericks that were almost fire and forget. Now this plane no longer is capable to keep me out of SHORAD fire when employing the BRM (Id normally pull up hard to stay above 10k feet after firing.) But its still quite a bit of fun - you just have to relearn its new limitations as it evolves during the OpenBeta process.

TJ

why should maneuvering the plane effect the flight of the missile? you can bank 90 degrees and they go off course, they definitely were unaffected by this 2 patches ago.

Beam riding means the rocket has to keep itself inside the laser beam, if you maneuver too hard or deviate from launch path too much(TGP to Target LOS is keeping changing), the rocket has to bleed speed to keep up. The more you deviate, the more speeding it bleed out. And in the final, the rocket bleed out it's energy and not able to follow again.

Then it miss.

I don't think it keeps itself "inside" the laser beam or its own ass will block the laser. More like close around it which is why the vikhrs are made to spin like crazy.

2.7g pull as recorded by tacview too hard? While Im being gentle, the miss occurs during the pullup.

 

TJ

Depend on the ingress attitude and how far you deviate from the launch path, yes, a constant 2.7G pull could lead to a miss if the firing condition is not very good.

I've test a dozen BRM today, mostly fire at 4.8NM, basically score a direct hit, and several impact around the target(fire a littile far away and terminal energy is a bit low) and cause some damage.

I don't think it keeps itself "inside" the laser beam or its own ass will block the laser. More like close around it which is why the vikhrs are made to spin like crazy.

Beam riding means keep inside the beam, the seeker of this kind of weapon is usually installed on the bottom.

The BRM in RL is an SALH weapon, not a beam riding weapon, so the seeker is installed on the head. The BRM in DCS is currently using a beam riding weapon scheme, since there is no accurate scheme for BRM. We will switch to the better scheme if available.

What about laser mavericks? Nobody cares if brm spin

What about laser mavericks? Nobody cares if brm spin

I honestly don't mind on BRM Spinning and that stuff, but everyone knows that if Deka does that, many people that doesn't have the JF, will say "That's not realistic / thats OP" or wathever shit, we will have to wait for the schemes

Depend on the ingress attitude and how far you deviate from the launch path, yes, a constant 2.7G pull could lead to a miss if the firing condition is not very good.

 

 

 

I've test a dozen BRM today, mostly fire at 4.8NM, basically score a direct hit, and several impact around the target(fire a littile far away and terminal energy is a bit low) and cause some damage.

TJ

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Beam riding means keep inside the beam, the seeker of this kind of weapon is usually installed on the bottom.

 

 

 

The BRM in RL is an SALH weapon, not a beam riding weapon, so the seeker is installed on the head. The BRM in DCS is currently using a beam riding weapon scheme, since there is no accurate scheme for BRM. We will switch to the better scheme if available.

TJ

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

ED has to code it first...

Can you post a tacview like I did? Maybe I'm just employing them incorrectly. I cant ever hit the target, even flying straight at the target at that range. I don't typically fire until 3.8 miles and I'm about 50/50 if I hit the target at that range.

 

TJ

 

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

OK, here is the TACVIEW, as U can see, I hit a moving target(20 knot) from 4.8NM, and I hit the last 2 target from over 5nm(5.6nm for the last one).

Tips:

1. The BRM will become very unstable below Mach 1 and likely to miss, so if U tend to fire far away, then accelerate to a higher speed(ie M0.85+). If U start the shooting at 300kts then you will get a shorter range (200kts means a lot on BRM).

2.When engaging static targets, you can use area track and aim the ground not the body of the target, shallow shots may near miss, if the laser is pointing on the target's body.

ACMI:

Tacview-20200524-215925-DCS-JF17 CAS-BRM1.rar

It's more these have stopped working or been changed from how they've been behaving i've been using brm's with almost no issues since release and they've behaved how i expected them too despite being beam riding.

You could fire turn to avoid flying over the target and being shot by a sam and still guide the rocket and they would hit.

Somethings now changed with them 2 patches ago and they now miss or force you to fly in a perfectly straight line and get shot down, this was reported in this thread with the expectation the change whatever it was would get reverted because it wasn't working correctly or had unintended problems.

I literally just want my brm's back to how they were 2 patches ago when they worked.

It's more these have stopped working or been changed from how they've been behaving i've been using brm's with almost no issues since release and they've behaved how i expected them too despite being beam riding.

You could fire turn to avoid flying over the target and being shot by a sam and still guide the rocket and they would hit.

Somethings now changed with them 2 patches ago and they now miss or force you to fly in a perfectly straight line and get shot down, this was reported in this thread with the expectation the change whatever it was would get reverted because it wasn't working correctly or had unintended problems.

I literally just want my brm's back to how they were 2 patches ago when they worked.

If you are comparing the BRM at current build with the one on original releasing, yes, the parameters have been tuned. And it's not going to going back.

At releasing, the BRM have an actual range about 8nm(even 9NM at high speed), which is too far away for a 90MM rocket(the 9M127 has a range of 8-10KM and it is a 130MM weapon, much larger than BRM), so BRM is adjusted for current values.

The BRM is not intended for a standoff weapon, it is only designed for a low cost precise muniation,which add a cheap guidance and control kit onto the old 90MM rocket .

So another balancing change - got it roger wilco understood.....

So another balancing change - got it roger wilco understood.....

It's nothing about balancing, the original unguided 90MM rocket only has a range of 8000meters. BRM1 is based on the 90MM rocket.

And it’s revolving around, so it won’t hold energy as well as the unguided version that spins in a straight line