How to best use bombs in AUTO mode?

I know they said they fixed "Mk82's landing short", but now Mk83's are all over the place and Mk82's always land long.

I had a pretty established method of accurately bombing level before the patch. I think AUTO's been made worse.

The problem wasn't"MK82's landing short", it was a mis-calculation for all bombs of the release point depending on speed and altitude. You could reliably get Mk82's to land short OR long, depending on your speed or atltitude.

Can anyone else corroborate this? I'll have time to make a more detailed analysis and corresponding track tomorrow.

Are you confident that your delivery procedure is correct? By that I mean are you using the correst/best method for determining target elevation? We now have AGR and if that is not used, over uneven terrain, BALT or RALT might (now) result in a less accurate weapon solution.

Well don't know about auto, havent tried it yet however just did a quick mission dropping 82's using CCIP (for some manual challenge fun) and as you get closer to the ground the piper starts heading off to the right on a weird angle... so all my bombs were missing going to the left. This is with no wind a balanced CG plane... I've done it a hundred times and something is definitely off for sure

Are you confident that your delivery procedure is correct? By that I mean are you using the correst/best method for determining target elevation? We now have AGR and if that is not used, over uneven terrain, BALT or RALT might (now) result in a less accurate weapon solution.

Yes, have used wpdesg, tpod, ag radar all to the same effect. For comparison, I've used the same points as JDAM TOO targets to eliminate the aimpoint and HOT as an issue. JDAMS were reliably able to score hits.

Have you tried it yourself?

I concur with everything Rifle said. Before this update you could clearly see how the maths of AUTO mode wasn't correctly modeled. Now you could clearly see how the error got extrapolated to other scenarios. A couple of months ago they also "fixed" a bug about AUTO mode method selection that prevented the solution to be accurate but it never did anything in game.

I know they said they fixed "Mk82's landing short", but now Mk83's are all over the place and Mk82's always land long.

 

I had a pretty established method of accurately bombing level before the patch. I think AUTO's been made worse.

 

The problem wasn't"MK82's landing short", it was a mis-calculation for all bombs of the release point depending on speed and altitude. You could reliably get Mk82's to land short OR long, depending on your speed or atltitude.

 

Can anyone else corroborate this? I'll have time to make a more detailed analysis and corresponding track tomorrow.

I'll try some more organized tests tomorrow... so far I tried 15 deg dive delivery at around 550 kts with Mk82s hitting slightly long and Mk 83s bang on. 10 knot head wind.

I'll try some more organized tests tomorrow... so far I tried 15 deg dive delivery at around 550 kts with Mk82s hitting slightly long and Mk 83s bang on. 10 knot head wind.

Thanks I'll do the same

I tend to have good accuracy with more realistic release parameters, e.g. 40deg release at around 450~475kts.

I tend to have good accuracy with more realistic release parameters, e.g. 40deg release at around 450~475kts.

It depends on your release altitude. I tried high alt, high dive angle bombing before the patch and the speed/alt rule still held. If you were at a 40 deg dive, before you got to release you would certainly be "too fast" for the algo, and it'd let your bombs go early and they'd drop short. I.e., if your drop alt was 7000ft (so you probably started at something like angels 17-19 if you're diving 40deg at 450kts) your bombs would land short 100% of the time, in roughly the same area every single time.

I now have to do more testing post patch, as it seems the problem is different but worse. I've only had an hour or two of flying since the patch. I'm about to head in and do comprehensive testing now.

You shouldn't get a perfect impacts with a hornet in any modes than by luck.

You shouldn't get a perfect impacts with a hornet in any modes than by luck.

They're not discussing about having perfect impacts, that has been said a million times, none of us expect dumb bombs to be smart. They are discussing about the consistency of the errors... Errors should be erratic, not the same over and over again, those are called bugs.

You shouldn't get a perfect impacts with a hornet in any modes than by luck.

Never said it should.

This is an acknowledged bug by ED before the patch, I'm simply commenting it's not fixed yet. I'm not talking out of my behind if you know what I mean, my friend. :thumbup:

Acknowledged bug thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=282730&highlight=auto+mode

They're not discussing about having perfect impacts, that has been said a million times, none of us expect dumb bombs to be smart. They are discussing about the consistency of the errors... Errors should be erratic, not the same over and over again, those are called bugs.

I am talking about precision vs accuracy. And if you miss a target same way repeatedly, you are precise but not accurate. If you drop bombs and most will scatter around the target missing and some get near good or even direct hits, it is then imprecise and inaccurate.

But if someone drops bomb always where aimed, then it is accurate and precise.

Example most bombs dropping past target doesn't yet explain anything, but if all drops same way like example 55 meters longer from release point, then it is precise and inaccurate same time, so there is a bug in both.

Example what is written from Harrier DMT capability:

It is as well said that system allowed Harrier drop bombs more accurately then hornet with AG radar, or AV-8B+ with the APG-65 radar without ARBS system in TPOD.

So hornet shouldn't be an accurate or precise with unguided weapons with or without radar or TPOD.

There is something wrong in DCS overall to calculate bomb dropping, as even with Harrier it is precise but about 150-300 meters off the target from 4000-7000 ft release in perfect weather and stable flight.

I am talking about precision vs accuracy. And if you miss a target same way repeatedly, you are precise but not accurate. If you drop bombs and most will scatter around the target missing and some get near good or even direct hits, it is then imprecise and inaccurate.

But if someone drops bomb always where aimed, then it is accurate and precise.

 

Example most bombs dropping past target doesn't yet explain anything, but if all drops same way like example 55 meters longer from release point, then it is precise and inaccurate same time, so there is a bug in both.

 

Example what is written from Harrier DMT capability:

 

 

It is as well said that system allowed Harrier drop bombs more accurately then hornet with AG radar, or AV-8B+ with the APG-65 radar without ARBS system in TPOD.

 

17:15

 

So hornet shouldn't be an accurate or precise with unguided weapons with or without radar or TPOD.

 

There is something wrong in DCS overall to calculate bomb dropping, as even with Harrier it is precise but about 150-300 meters off the target from 4000-7000 ft release in perfect weather and stable flight.

Am I invisible? :cry:

Dude....OP isn’t arguing accuracy vs reliability. He’s suggesting something has changed with the last patch and bombing is far less accurate than before; meaning something was changed

It depends on your release altitude. I tried high alt, high dive angle bombing before the patch and the speed/alt rule still held. If you were at a 40 deg dive, before you got to release you would certainly be "too fast" for the algo, and it'd let your bombs go early and they'd drop short. I.e., if your drop alt was 7000ft (so you probably started at something like angels 17-19 if you're diving 40deg at 450kts) your bombs would land short 100% of the time, in roughly the same area every single time.

 

I now have to do more testing post patch, as it seems the problem is different but worse. I've only had an hour or two of flying since the patch. I'm about to head in and do comprehensive testing now.

A quick vid from one of the test hops.

Level @ 500kts

Mk84, 83 and 82 were good hits.

15 deg. dive - release @4000ft at steady 500kts

All were good hits.

The vid shows Mk84s and 82s (Mk83 was recorded directly from VR narrow view so I didn't include it)

A quick vid from one of the test hops.

 

Level @ 500kts

Mk84, 83 and 82 were good hits.

 

15 deg. dive - release @4000ft at steady 500kts

All were good hits.

 

The vid shows Mk84s and 82s (Mk83 was recorded directly from VR narrow view so I didn't include it)

 

Getting similar results as you at 5k and below.

Try 7k and up.

Getting similar results as you at 5k and below.

 

Try 7k and up.

I did. Not too bad. Mk82s splashed 20m long from a 35deg release @9000ft.

Being a DCS strike jockey, I like to come in as low and fast as possible, release level @ nearly trans sonic speed, pull slightly up then break left or right and run like hell.

I did. Not too bad. Mk82s splashed 20m long from a 35deg release @9000ft.

Being a DCS strike jockey, I like to come in as low and fast as possible, release level @ nearly trans sonic speed, pull slightly up then break left or right and run like hell.

Will test more tonight.

You must love the Viggen!

God....I WISH I had the time to learn the Viggen

Ok, getting very mixed results here. Sometimes it's ok, other times, something reeaaaallly whacky happens. See the attached track. Note I have no mods installed at all. This isn't the result I get all the time, but do get every 5th drop or so. What is going on here? What exactly did I do wrong for the bombs to drop that early? This didn't happen before the last patch.

EDIT:

And Hornet shack is the very next attempt, direct hit.

2nd EDIT:

Did another run, 4 drops, same target. Uploaded below. Some closer than others, 100% are short. Something is still going on. I would expect the pattern to be all around the target if it were general inaccuracy. Instead, all are some degree of short.

FINAL EDIT:

Ok, I see what's going on. MK83 haven't been touched by the patch. All the tests you'll see below are Mk83. The bug I reported is still active there. If you bomb level at 7kft 370kts you will hit reliably with these, just like before.

Mk82's, however, which were in the patch notes, seem to be good in pretty much every flight regime I've tested so far. Haven't tested Mk84 yet.

hornet_wth.trk

hornet_shack.trk

hornet_short.trk

...Haven't tested Mk84 yet.

Pretty accurate as far as I'm concerned. I did a little goof off test and put a small vehicle on one of Burj Khalifa's verandas. That's about 2300 feet above ground. I was able to pluck'em out and that was a pretty small target area.

Disregard the end part of this clip... just some lame humor:disgust:

Never thought I'd see a near mid-air with a UAZ!

I found it ironic you attacked ED's logo on the ferrari bldg for messing up movers but missed the bird because the dispersion is crazy. All in good fun, of course!

Ok, getting very mixed results here. Sometimes it's ok, other times, something reeaaaallly whacky happens. See the attached track. Note I have no mods installed at all. This isn't the result I get all the time, but do get every 5th drop or so. What is going on here? What exactly did I do wrong for the bombs to drop that early? This didn't happen before the last patch.

 

EDIT:

And Hornet shack is the very next attempt, direct hit.

 

2nd EDIT:

 

Did another run, 4 drops, same target. Uploaded below. Some closer than others, 100% are short. Something is still going on. I would expect the pattern to be all around the target if it were general inaccuracy. Instead, all are some degree of short.

 

FINAL EDIT:

 

Ok, I see what's going on. MK83 haven't been touched by the patch. All the tests you'll see below are Mk83. The bug I reported is still active there. If you bomb level at 7kft 370kts you will hit reliably with these, just like before.

 

Mk82's, however, which were in the patch notes, seem to be good in pretty much every flight regime I've tested so far. Haven't tested Mk84 yet.

So you find mk82 in AUTO bugfree?