What would YOU ask a real P-51 Pilot?

The title says it all - What would YOU ask a real P-51 Pilot? (And can I have a go / a ride does not count!)

The Virtual Horsemen are meeting up with the real team (Steve Hinton, Dan Friedkin & Ed Shipley) in a couple of weeks time and again in July so, I thought I would try to do a short Q & A with questions from the community. So, if there's something that you want to know, post up here and I will do my best to get an answer for you.

**Please keep in mind that they are very busy people - I can not guarantee an answer to every submitted question**.

Rock

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Current Questions:

• After experiencing DCS: P-51 for yourself, did anything seem to be missing from the overall experience?
   
  
• In DCS, it is quite easy to enter an accelerated stall, especially in high angle of attack maneuvers, in the Mustang. Does this match up to your real life experience?
   
  
• In the simulator, the Mustang vibrates strongly when on the ground. Is this the case in the real aircraft?
   
  
• In a Spitfire, it is known the ailerons can feel very heavy at high speed. Does the Mustang suffer from a similar downfall with Pitch, roll or yaw? Is it possible to quantify the amount of force need at certain speeds?
   
  
• When flying the real aircraft, is temperature management a constant worry? In DCS, it's quite easy to overheat, when using full military power, if your airspeed gets too low.
   
  
• After take off, how soon is the RPM adjusted and what to? Is there a climb rate that you try to maintain to keep the aircraft sufficiently cool?
  

Q. Have any of them flown the DCS Mustang and if so what is it lacking?

...Besides the obvious, like G forces and such. Since we all want fidelity and an authentic feel, how does it compare and what does it need.

What method and training they used to scan the sky for enemy fighters?

Leon

What method and training they used to scan the sky for enemy fighters?

 

Leon

I believe they are modern P-51 pilots. They have the luxury of focusing on precision flying without the threat of getting bounced.

Perhaps I should take this opportunity to confirm the following:

I will be taking my PC and other equipment. All 3 pilots will be trying out DCS for themselves.

Leon, Merlin is correct. The pilots are current formation aerobatic pilots and, as such, have no combat experience in the P-51.

I think one of the flight characteristics that takes newcomers to the P51D some time to get used to is how the Mustang can fall into an accelerated stall quite easily due to our shorter stick throws and inability to feel the forces in play. Would be interesting to get their feedback on that flight characteristic all the same to see if the boundaries of the accelerated stall are accurate to what they've experienced in the real thing.

I hope this is a easy one and doesn't takes to much time to answer:

Please ask if the Trim wheels acting in DCS like in the real one.

I would be very glad to know if I'm right with my 'assumption' :

Why doesn't elevator trim wheel move in real time?

I read somewhere that a Mustang jokey is using up the left glove (when wearing) up in now time - and it's not because they have to use the trim so often - its because of the friction of the wheels.

Edit :

So i have a link , just to backup my 'mantra' that you have to use the right controls for the simulation.

Another interesting question is ammount of shaking and vibration in real mustang. I am using motion seat with SCN5 actuators and shaking on the ground is very strong. So my question is in which cases and how strong these vibrations are in real mustang?

thanks

Leon

When the engine is idling normally, in the daytime, can you see flame at the exhaust ports?

Another interesting question is ammount of shaking and vibration in real mustang. I am using motion seat with SCN5 actuators and shaking on the ground is very strong. So my question is in which cases and how strong these vibrations are in real mustang?

 

thanks

 

Leon

Pardon me if I answer it beforehand.

That's a easy one - the motor is swinging and rumbling so much on the ground because its components are not working within it's designed average parameter and 'tied' to the ground, this adds a violent oscillation to the frame.

Once off the ground everything can vibrate how the engineers foreseen it for normal usage - and the oscillation cancels out itself within the limits of the construction.

BTW: controlling violent oscillation is a very complex theme (nowadays even more) when designing a complex machine it has to be tested and calculated carefully beforehand ...

- I bet sitting in it while it flies would be much more enjoyable - ...if it ever have had the power to leave the ground ;):

Edit: Yup! similar to what cichilidfan wrote.

PeterP, thank you very much. In the air, also firing the gun produces very strong movements. For example, in Huey there is almost no feedback from the firing.

Leon

PeterP, thank you very much. In the air, also firing the gun produces very strong movements. For example, in Huey there is almost no feedback from the firing.

 

Leon

If this inherits a question ;) as I don't see a question mark - This belongs to another forum section of a in-Beta-state module.

Please let not distract from the topic (that is: What would YOU ask a real P-51 Pilot? )and lets ask further things that are not answered already , in the appropriate section/thread.

How did you manage to paint those gorgeous girls on the fuselages of your WW2 p51s? Were the models true to life? Were you also able to "Fly" them? What would you stall at / kill engine first, the p51 or the model?

Stick and rudder forces at different airspeeds?

Please try to keep this serious guys... I was trying to give the community a chance to have their questions answered by real P-51 pilots, but some people obviously feel the need to attempt to derail the thread.

Thanks PeterP, but the basics are pretty clear to me.

I was asking more in the line of, '300 mph - 40 lbs for full aileron deflection' just an approximation would do fine. Same for the elevators and rudders.

Only info I've found is 90 pounds for a 5G turn at 240 kias, elevator force obviously.

"They concluded that the Mustang was a two-handed airplane in which prolonged hard maneuvering was extremely tiring."

""I could move the stick at high speed without using two hands (P-51B) as I normally would in the D."

I've been very curious about this one:

Does the mustang really flutter and roll upside down when you do a fighter pilots 180? (ie roll the aircraft 90 degrees and pull hard on the stick). If so how much backward pressure can be applied before that happens?

I've been very curious about this one:

 

Does the mustang really flutter and roll upside down when you do a fighter pilots 180? (ie roll the aircraft 90 degrees and pull hard on the stick). If so how much backward pressure can be applied before that happens?

I also would like to know the answer to this one,Good question.As well as how real the engine management of a real P-51 compares to the game.

+1 for how you scan the skies and identify friend or foe and approach a bogey. what were the ranges like and what reactions did each group take on sighting?

+1 for how you scan the skies and identify friend or foe and approach a bogey. what were the ranges like and what reactions did each group take on sighting?

The pilots are current formation aerobatic pilots and, as such, have no combat experience in the P-51.

;)

I got 2 question:

1. Is real P-51 so prone to stall like DCS one? If they will try DCS P-51 i wonder how it feels compare to real one in high angle of attack manouvers? In DCS you could stall it with not too much stick movement - how it is compare with real one

2. Is real P-51 overheat so quickly at slow speeds manouvers and climbs at full ( military) power? In DCS P-51 could overhat in 2 vertical zooms from high speed till stall speed - how it is comparing to real one?

I got 2 question:

 

1. Is real P-51 so prone to stall like DCS one? If they will try DCS P-51 i wonder how it feels compare to real one in high angle of attack manouvers? In DCS you could stall it with not too much stick movement - how it is compare with real one

 

2. Is real P-51 overheat so quickly at slow speeds manouvers and climbs at full ( military) power? In DCS P-51 could overhat in 2 vertical zooms from high speed till stall speed - how it is comparing to real one?

1. The P-51 is well known for sharp departures with little warning.

2. Open the radiator manually; don't rely on the automatic setting.

You don't need to ask a real pilot for either of these questions.:pilotfly:

 

2. Is real P-51 overheat so quickly at slow speeds manouvers and climbs at full ( military) power? In DCS P-51 could overhat in 2 vertical zooms from high speed till stall speed - how it is comparing to real one?

 

2. Open the radiator manually; don't rely on the automatic setting.

 

You don't need to ask a real pilot for either of these questions.

Actually, I think it's valid to ask if the RL pilots believe it is properly simulated. I'd like to know how they manage the temps and what their normal procedure is. I've done a lot of reading on the subject and don't recall too many instances where they discuss overheating as a constant concern, specifically the AUTO settings.

I would ask one important question:

How do you operate the engine to maximize its life during combat?

Great opportunity! Looking forward to the report. :thumbup:

I'm not sure how familiar you are with these particular pilots (I am not), but in my experience, working with pilots can be a little tricky when assesing realism, in particular if your time is limited and they don't have much experience with the sim, and especially if they don't have much experience with sims in general. I sometimes find that pilots immediately have a very low expectation of realism from a PC sim. The mere idea of equating their actual flying experience to the PC, where you are sitting in a chair behind a monitor and flying with joysticks is itself too alien to call "realistic". I often find that pilots are more impressed by and interested in things like visuals and sound representation and less so with things like flight modeling and performance, which they simply assume has no useful resemblence to reality. In fact most pilots I've seen flying our sims initially just yank and bank the stick around, stalling all over the place. Unless actual model testing is the objective, they mostly just want to have fun with it and take the chance to do stuff they cannot in the real bird! ;)

The point is, when trying to evaluate a sim with a pilot, it's important that the pilot has a good understanding of how to translate his real world experience into the sim, try to filter out things like stick and rudder feel and try as much as possible to focus on the numbers - airspeed, roll rate, climb rate, stick travel, etc. This can be quite difficult to do and often takes time and work with the sim presenter. The general feel of the model is of course very important as well and this feedback is valuable, but again, has to be based on something concrete as much as possible.

Anyway, I don't mean to be pessimistic! I would love to be there with you, it's a great opportunity and should be good fun!

Personally, I would like to hear their feedback on the landing touchdown physics. Again, if possible, considered by the numbers.