CPU v GPU upgrade - Advice?

Hi

I currently have an i7 4760k and a GTX 980. My question, is there any benefit of changing the CPU to a i7 7700k? Or am I better spending my money on a GTX 1080ti? I can do both of course but if DCS can be handled by my current CPU, then there is supposedly no real need to upgrade. Would the current CPU give me enough headroom for full DCS world 2?

My other specs are in my signature..

Thanks for your views

Neal

I personally think you are fine with the CPU. I am sill running my 4820k@4.50 Ghz , and probably at best I would gain maybe 500 MHz upgrading to a 7700K processor and mb combination.

I am going to hold off doing a new build for another year or so.

I did upgrade from a 970 to a 1080 vid card, which is running very well for me. Gave me a nice boost in DCS 2.0.

A i7 4760K??

You don't need a Gtx1080Ti to run 3 1920x1080. Get a Gtx1080.

You need 16GB of RAM. Overclock your CPU to 4.4-4.5Ghz.

I think your CPU is still fine, you can overclock it if you havent done so yet.

Do you have a SSD ?

Maybe adding some RAM could also help smoothing things out, 16GB is recommended DCS specs, 8GB minimum, so you are half way between.

Depending on which of those screens and beamers you use for DCS you might actually want to consider a bigger GPU.

I fly at 1440p with a single 980GTX and that's about what that card can handle. Adding another 27"1440p would kill the fun I guess.

How many FPS do you get ? Do you have performance issues ?

Depending on those answers and underlying root causes I would invest in either Overclocking capability, SSD, RAM or GPU or a combination of that as any of those has the potential to spoil your DCS experience if it is not sufficient.

Anyway, looking at your sig again and all those beamers and screens..yeah the 1080Ti might be a solid point on the shopping list, add Overclocking RAM and SSD if that wont get you far enough I think is a safe approach.

A i7 4760K??

You don't need a Gtx1080Ti to run 3 1920x1080. Get a Gtx1080.

You need 16GB of RAM. Overclock your CPU to 4.4-4.5Ghz.

They are on sale now for 500 and less btw.

No need for CPU upgrade at all. Yo may need to wait another 2 generations until new CPUs will make any difference.

GPU all the way.... as high as you can afford.

I would listen to BitMaster if I were you...

Hi

thank you for the advice, I currently have DDR3 RAM, what would the benefits of upgrading to DDR4, which would need a new MOBO? I understand that it is better performing (?) but in reality would it be noticeable (not just benchmark difference)?

I currently run the main DCS on the 3 Beamers at a resolution of 3640 x 1024 (extended to 3640 x 2104 for export of viewports to touch screen running Helios).

My apologies my CPU is a i74790K.

Sorry for the simplistic questions!

Neal

no way man, that's totally not worth it !

What you can do if you think your RAM is a cause for latency or stutter is upgrade ypour existing DDR3 and keep all the rest. Your current modules are for sure easier to sell for good money than your whole internals if you'd pick the ddr4 option.

What is more important than ddr3 or ddr4 is that which ever you have is low latency, the bandwidth is not so much the troublemaker.

Since you only have those 12GB, why dont you look for some DDR3-2400MHz, maybe some that occur in your Asus QVL from the mobo, available at Asus DL site, chgeck which one of the fast ones you like and get it. Those usually work with XMP right away if listed.

Mine, from sig, AREN'T listed for my board,....and XMP worked "almost", lemme put it this way. Better get some from QVL !

Have you overclocked that CPU yet ? DC is a great candiadte to hit 4.6-4.8 with AIO or good Aircooler. You might wanna look into that for performance reason. No CPU you can buy today is a sfast as your DC if overclocked properly, not even the 7700k, it may pull even. So dont bitch about your CPU !! LoL LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!

She's ya baby that you ought to know better so she gives you more :P

Hi

decided to upgrade GPU to GTX 1080; wow big difference in clarity and smooth image, very pleased with the results.

Added extra RAM and now have 16GB, checked BIOS and realised did not have XMP enabled, did that, no noticeable difference yet.

Been working on my overclocking - Question, is i best to do this through the MOBO utility programme or manual settings in BIOS?

Great advice,

regards

Neal

It depends..but I would start from within Windows as it is easier to tweak instantly while you test.

My procedure is somehow like this:

Open Asus AI Suite, Digi-VRM and dial in some more Power options, usually called LLC ( 1-7 steps, maybe more or less ), PowerPhaseControl ( Standard, Asus, Extreme ) and CPU Current Capability ( 100-140% ).

Set PPC to EXTREME, LLC to mid-3/4 and Current to 120-130%.

This is to stabilize your CPU once run at higher clocks. YOu can and shgould lower each one and see if itz remains stable once you have found your OC spot. For now, give it more juice and watch temps.

Go to TurboEVO app then and raise your vCore by a SMALL amount. I am unaware of your CPU settings but dont do more than 0.025v more, say its 1.20v stock, then dial in 1.225 or 1.250 max to begin with.

The up the multiplier by a what you think it can take, 1-2 steps ( each one 100MHz ).

If it still runs fine after hitting apply you should stress test it immideatly to see if it holds it

under load. Aida64 stresstest is a nice tool to do this, usually if it wont hold it then only the stresstest with fail but not bsod, unless at the very edge.

Stress it for 15min...if it holds and temps are still OK, UP it 1 more step..test again..test until you find a setting where it FAILS..then look temps..if temps where still OK you can leave the multiplier there but UP the vCore by another 0.025v and see if that stabilizes it.

YOu will eventually reach a point where either the CPU gets too hot but still wont fail ( good sign for your CPU ! ) or it fails no matter what volts you dial in.

From that point on it gets more tricky. Assume you have STABNDARD rams speed running you could exclude the other voltages, if you ran fast ram it gets very tricky from a certain point on, so I advice you to leave the ram at normal speed ( no XMP, go 2133DDR4 or 1600 DDR3) to keep it simple.

Up the volts only in very small portions and remember, IT IS NOT THE HEAT THAT KILLS YOUR CPU BUT THE HIGH CURRENT OVER TIME EVAPORATES YOUR CIRCUITS !

So try to be low on Volts, as low as you can to keep it stable.

Once you found a good spot, say 4.6 or 4.7/4.8, whatever, test it thoroughly with Aida64 for 2-4h and then, if you DARE, download prime95 and run that BUT READ THE WARNING:

prime95 has many versions available, the last version without AVX is 26.6b3 and that is SAFE to use in all conditions, tho you still have to watch temps, as with any stress test.

The newer and newest prime95's employ AVX code and that UPs your temp VERY HIGH !!!

I reach up to 102°C and throttle at some point on 5G/3600 but it wont fail ( so I will delid soon ). AVX can cook your CPU beyond good and bad, dont overdo it with this AVX.

If you want to test RL AVX code, download Handbrake and recode a few videos for 1-2h and see if it holds it. If HB quits with error your CPU cannot hold that speed with AVX. If it does it, then yopu are all fine for everyday AVX.

Intelburntest is also a good stresser, choose your mem settings and let it run 10 loops ( less on higher mem, it takes for ever on 25GB mem for example if you want 10 loops ! )

What is no good test meanwhile is Asus RealBench...it always fails, regardless, so I left it out.

If I really stress mine I start prime95AVX and Kombustor same time, it then consumes 600W and cooks....if it holds that for as long as the CPU wont reach too high temps you are fine PSU wise. Use non-avx-prime and Kombustor for a 2h torture, CPU and GPU.

There are many guides on the net that specifically talk about your Intel CPU, I highly advice you to read a few of those BEFORE you go at it !!!

Type "i7 4760k overclock" and follow the links, read and see what they did, how far they came and what voltages are to be worked on for that model. It differs from gen to gen what needs to be tweaked and I have never owned your series of Intel CPU, only sold it to friends but they dont oc at all :(

Get back to me if you get stuck...and yes...this can take 1-2weeks, couple hours each day to find the sweetspot ;)

Bit

* good thing is, you have a mature mainboard. Download latest Bios if you havent yet, that usually helps.

Any supplementary application will consume extra resources, could have stability issues ... anyway will add one more possible point of failure... so all the way for BIOS settings.

ASUS Mobo's are very good for OC.

Overclocking by the MOBO utility program will use more Vcore (more heat) than the BIOS settings.

I don't think you will have stability problems with the MOBO utility program.

Overclocking (by the BIOS) is a long and methodical procedure.

Any supplementary application will consume extra resources, could have stability issues ... anyway will add one more possible point of failure... so all the way for BIOS settings.

ASUS Mobo's are very good for OC.

No, not from Bios from start on, that will cause pulled hair !

You can, once you know how and what, dial those paramters in in Bios and boot with OC but I highly reommend not to do it but boot normal ( soi it ALWAYS boots ) and oc in OS as needed.

I dont run my machione 5G-24/7 I aint nuts !!!!!!!!!!

0.8GHz for YT video...I pay my own electric bill guys, 180€/month !!!

IMHO if anyone asks on this forum if and how to overlock the CPU he probably doesn't have experience with doing it. We should be a bit more conservative in recommending everyone to overclock his CPU as it's neither a standard nor easy and not guaranteed to be safe procedure. For sure something that can't be done in one shot by watching an youtube tutorial. Even if done correctly with one of the easier and most popular methods based on fixed voltage and multiplier settings the CPU life duration will get a serious hit. On the other hand if something goes wrong the best what will happen is having to clear the BIOS and start from defaults while obviously you can also fry the CPU or/and mobo.

IMHO if anyone asks on this forum if and how to overlock the CPU he probably doesn't have experience with doing it. We should be a bit more conservative in recommending everyone to overclock his CPU as it's neither a standard nor easy and not guaranteed to be safe procedure.

Agreed. Typically the best place to get good overclocking info is on the motherboard mfg forums. I have been running EVGA motherboards for a number of years and they have some fantastic overclocking info for each of their board models on their forums, plus a tremendous amount of very experienced users well familiar with that particular motherboard.

Agreed, sure !

It is an endavour that will need a steep learning curve, dedication, TIME, enough stamina to overcome frustration sometimes, and last but not least, YES..you can fry that thing if you dont watch out and overdo it.

The worst that "usually" happens is a CLEAR CMOS and pull RAM. This severly depends on your board, for example the last two high-end boards where bitches to oc, pulling RAM and CMOS many dozen times to no glory whereas my board in sig never ever need a single RAM pulled and yet have to look where this Jumper is for CMOS, never needed it throughout weeks of testing, RAM till 4133 and CPU beyond good&bad.

The only thing mine still does is refuse to boot sometimes. I have to either hit rest or powercycle with the button ( not PSU ). That happens in all-default and I accuse the unripe Bios causing it.

If you dare to oc, prepare for wasting some time in front of your screen watching stupid test programs performing the same over & over. If you dont like that idea OC is not for you.

I had no experience the first time i overclocked my CPU. But i learned...

Patience, perseverance and some aspirins.

Manual overclock all the way. It's a little more complicated at first but really not so hard. Google your CPU and Mobo with "over clocking guide" and it should be easy enough.

We all started at 0 knowledge and made it.

My first oc was a 166MHz Pentium-I clocked to 187.5MHz by BCLK alone...through setting jumpers.

It got a lot easier over time, dont be afraid !

Hi everyone

I have duly noted the hint of caution in the posts which greatly appreciated. I have a test rig with an 3rd Gen i5 on an asus motherboard; I shall have a practice on that machine. I use this to run my DCS BIOS panel test with bot World 1.5.6 and 2.0.

I think I will initially try using the utility programme and see what OC I achieve, this will at least give me a baseline to compare against. I will hen try OC through the BIOS, if it all goes south on me its no great loss!

I will let you know how it goes!

many thanks

Neal

Good idea !

That 3rd gen i5 could well be golden chip and reach up to 5G if properly cooled.

They are very similar to SandyBridge and still have the soldered IHS afaik.

I run one 3rd gen i7 in my Mac...just that I cant oc..or dunno how yet LOL

I have i5 4690k at 4.4G with Vcore 1.230 stable and temp only hit 62C at 100% full load paired it with Cryorig H7. I don't think my CPU would reach 5G without raising Vcore above 1.3. Do I have a bad chip ?

I have i5 4690k at 4.4G with Vcore 1.230 stable and temp only hit 62C at 100% full load paired it with Cryorig H7. I don't think my CPU would reach 5G without raising Vcore above 1.3. Do I have a bad chip ?

I dont own one but deriving from what I know, this 4th gen uses a thicker fab process than for example the 6th and 7th gen Intel's and Voltages were always a notch higher one each of the older and thicker generations.

For example, my 2600k needed 1.40V to hit 5G, 1.35V to hit 4.8G.

My current CPU in sig needs 1.330V for 5G, maybe even 1.350V if I take the newest prime95 of last week, that uses a new AVX code and needs even more volts to remain stable.

I dont think that 1.35-1.375 is abnormal to hit anything above 4.5/4.6 but you have to make a decision if it is worth it !!!

There will be a GHz setting from where on upwards Voltages need to be raised considerably, that is when you passed the sweetspot ! Dial back to the sweetspot, the GHz landmark before the Voltages need to be skyhigh. For methat would be anything past 5G for serious testing, it will never hold 5.1 or 5.2 priming unless supercooled by LN or such, it is just beyond what I can achieve..and beyond of what I want.

1.35V I guess is safe for that CPU but dont take my word as a garanty, look in google how others oc'ed that CPU and what in general their voltages were/are. That will give you the best idea of what to expect and what voltage NOT to surpass.

It's the Volts/Ampere that ruins your CPU, NOT THE HEAT !!! YOu can cool it with LN to way below Zero and you will still degrade your CPU a lot if you really OC like mad. Temps can be controlled one or the other way but that does not solve the evaporation problem of circuits under high currents. YOu cannot overcome this by cooling, only by setting the Volts lower / watts used. This is true for all chips and diodes from what I have read so far.

*edit: most 2nd 3rd and 4th gen Intels will not reach 5G with normal measures, you have to haver some GOOD LUCK to have one of those that does it with Voltages that will not burn your die. Right now, the only 5G capable CPU seems to be the 7thgen i5's and i7's and even those differ beyond 4.8GHz as of what I read. The sweetspot for the 7700k on my end is 4.8G, above that setting you need more Volts in relationship to what you achieve....the downside ! That is what wears the CPU out. It all comes with a price to pay, nothing is free.

Yep, just Google it. Safe Vcore for i5 4690k Haswell is 1.3 above that it will degrade the life of CPU no matter how cool it is.

Cheers