Jump to content

Taxi with the Spitfire is a PAIN!


Crash *

Recommended Posts

I know I'm gonna get some flack for my HOTAS choice but in this case... honestly, for the Spit, I hugely recommend an X-56 (the MiGs too) and here's why.

 

I game and work daily from home in an Obutto Revolution cockpit with all the trimmings and triple-head monitors. I fly center stick, and I've modified my X-56 to remove the stick twist, and permanently fixed it with the grip clocked (rotated counter-clockwise) for wrist comfort so my right wrist is straight while flying (like the F-5's stick as seen in DCS for example).

 

I have MFG Crosswinds, and the 109 is my favorite by far. For a while I tried using toe brakes but it just didn't work right - the Spit was not built that way, and it shows when you try the fly the sim that way.

 

I've mapped the stick lever/brake handle to my X-56 joystick thumb-stick, made it a slider and flattened out one end of the curve so that it only provides axial input when I squeeze it inward toward the stick with my right thumb.

 

I can taxi the spitfire like a train on rails now after many hours of practice admittedly, but honestly, after learning to live with it, I do not overheat my brakes (Trust me you'll know when you do) and I can stop & steer on a dime.

 

If you have an X-56, give this a try, or reconsider grabbing one just to use the Stick for the spit... its totally worth it, and makes the whole experience in the sim (cold start, full taxi/flight/landing/park & full shutdown) immensely more enjoyable because thats as close as you're gonna get to really having a brake lever on your stick hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I'm gonna get some flack for my HOTAS choice but in this case... honestly, for the Spit, I hugely recommend an X-56 (the MiGs too) and here's why.

 

I game and work daily from home in an Obutto Revolution cockpit with all the trimmings and triple-head monitors. I fly center stick, and I've modified my X-56 to remove the stick twist, and permanently fixed it with the grip clocked (rotated counter-clockwise) for wrist comfort so my right wrist is straight while flying (like the F-5's stick as seen in DCS for example).

 

I have MFG Crosswinds, and the 109 is my favorite by far. For a while I tried using toe brakes but it just didn't work right - the Spit was not built that way, and it shows when you try the fly the sim that way.

 

I've mapped the stick lever/brake handle to my X-56 joystick thumb-stick, made it a slider and flattened out one end of the curve so that it only provides axial input when I squeeze it inward toward the stick with my right thumb.

 

I can taxi the spitfire like a train on rails now after many hours of practice admittedly, but honestly, after learning to live with it, I do not overheat my brakes (Trust me you'll know when you do) and I can stop & steer on a dime.

 

If you have an X-56, give this a try, or reconsider grabbing one just to use the Stick for the spit... its totally worth it, and makes the whole experience in the sim (cold start, full taxi/flight/landing/park & full shutdown) immensely more enjoyable because thats as close as you're gonna get to really having a brake lever on your stick hand.

 

I'm contemplating doing the very same thing with my X55, but that's quite some work.

In the meantime, I've discovered a very neat way of handling braking in spitfire, using the same MFG as yours.

I was avoiding toebrakes because like you said, Spitfire is not built that way and feets tend to slide of pedals when you push the rudder and the toebrake at the same time.

BUT if you push the rudder one side, and use your OTHER foot (the one going back) for toe braking, this develops in a very natural movement (akin to walking) which works perfectly.

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm contemplating doing the very same thing with my X55, but that's quite some work.

In the meantime, I've discovered a very neat way of handling braking in spitfire, using the same MFG as yours.

I was avoiding toebrakes because like you said, Spitfire is not built that way and feets tend to slide of pedals when you push the rudder and the toebrake at the same time.

BUT if you push the rudder one side, and use your OTHER foot (the one going back) for toe braking, this develops in a very natural movement (akin to walking) which works perfectly.

 

I actually used to do the same thing with the MiGs back in the day, you're right it works okay.

 

Honestly, taking the X55/56 apart to permanently clock the grip for center-stick use is not difficult at all. If you'd like I can post a DIY w/ photos in the Input section, I'm sure I'll get some flames but let me know.

 

Basically it boils down to popping the stick apart, removing a pin and a spring, cutting two tabs with little pliers/dikes, setting with ALOT of very strong CA/superglue (I also added three little strips of sheet styrene from the model airplane workbench for good measure), let it dry, reassemble and voila, comfort grip! I am 100000% more comfortable flying a long time in Elite or DCS now in my Obutto, it makes a WORLD of difference. Honestly I was probably slowly injuring myself with the stick straight lol. I'm working on a 3D-print project to make a conversion case/kit for X55/X56 sticks that would replace the OEM base and allow it to fit on the Obutto's TM Warthog center stick mount - it would mean your X55/56 would take of 60% less lap space, and in the cockpit's case, mount low between your legs and be much better placed, more comfortable, etc.... will post that as soon as its done for sure.


Edited by Schwarzfeld
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm contemplating doing the very same thing with my X55, but that's quite some work.

In the meantime, I've discovered a very neat way of handling braking in spitfire, using the same MFG as yours.

I was avoiding toebrakes because like you said, Spitfire is not built that way and feets tend to slide of pedals when you push the rudder and the toebrake at the same time.

BUT if you push the rudder one side, and use your OTHER foot (the one going back) for toe braking, this develops in a very natural movement (akin to walking) which works perfectly.

 

I assigned both my MFG toe brakes to braking the Spit, so I have that option on which to use. Once I got used to it seems to work very well for me...

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually used to do the same thing with the MiGs back in the day, you're right it works okay.

 

Honestly, taking the X55/56 apart to permanently clock the grip for center-stick use is not difficult at all. If you'd like I can post a DIY w/ photos in the Input section, I'm sure I'll get some flames but let me know.

 

Basically it boils down to popping the stick apart, removing a pin and a spring, cutting two tabs with little pliers/dikes, setting with ALOT of very strong CA/superglue (I also added three little strips of sheet styrene from the model airplane workbench for good measure), let it dry, reassemble and voila, comfort grip! I am 100000% more comfortable flying a long time in Elite or DCS now in my Obutto, it makes a WORLD of difference. Honestly I was probably slowly injuring myself with the stick straight lol. I'm working on a 3D-print project to make a conversion case/kit for X55/X56 sticks that would replace the OEM base and allow it to fit on the Obutto's TM Warthog center stick mount - it would mean your X55/56 would take of 60% less lap space, and in the cockpit's case, mount low between your legs and be much better placed, more comfortable, etc.... will post that as soon as its done for sure.

 

Pretty interested for sure! Did you also add an extension to the stick?

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty interested for sure! Did you also add an extension to the stick?

 

Well, for the crank over mod to fix the stick in one position (rotated grip), no. For the 3D print project thats upcoming, I'm designing it to work with my Obutto and the Obutto TM Warthog-specific center stick mount, so no extension is required. Honestly I would not even want to begin trying to make an extension for the X55/56, as it would be a big, wide-diameter tube that would end up making a mess... unless you wanted to straight up chop the thing down at the stem base and attempt to fabricate basically a new stem with all the cables running through it... no thaaaank yoooou lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assigned both my MFG toe brakes to braking the Spit, so I have that option on which to use. Once I got used to it seems to work very well for me...

 

Same, I was just pointing out that people were saying to use the toebrake on the foot pushing the rudder, I'd advise to do the opposite : use the toebrake on the foot NOT pushing the rudder.

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same, I was just pointing out that people were saying to use the toebrake on the foot pushing the rudder, I'd advise to do the opposite : use the toebrake on the foot NOT pushing the rudder.

 

Yes you are correct that is more intuitive. Having learned to fly a plane before I learned to drive a car, honestly a plane without toe brakes (I hate heel brakes...) just feels unnatural lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, for the crank over mod to fix the stick in one position (rotated grip), no. For the 3D print project thats upcoming, I'm designing it to work with my Obutto and the Obutto TM Warthog-specific center stick mount, so no extension is required. Honestly I would not even want to begin trying to make an extension for the X55/56, as it would be a big, wide-diameter tube that would end up making a mess... unless you wanted to straight up chop the thing down at the stem base and attempt to fabricate basically a new stem with all the cables running through it... no thaaaank yoooou lol

 

For stick extension , look here : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166174

In this very same thread, I think there are people who would also be very interested in your crank over mod, they are talking about something like that by the end of the thread

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I do an instant action mission and start on the runway, the brakes are already applied!? The brake gauge says it's zero(no brakes). But if I throttle up I always nose over. I have to tap the W key to unlock the brakes. Then I can throttle up and roll without nosing over. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong.

 

I do have my pedals assigned to the brake axis. And I have a dead zone set to 20% so I am not ever pushing the brakes by accident. I have tested this several times and I always have to tap the Brakes key.

Intel I9-10850K (OC @ 5.0ghz) │ Asus Maximus XII Hero │ G.Skill Ripjaws 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3200 │ Thermaltake Water 360mm
Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24gb │ 2TB M.2 EVO Pro; 1T M.2 EVO; Sandisk SSD Drives │ 49" Samsung Curved Widescreen │ 28" Touchscreen

- ҉ - Blackshark Cockpit Trainer - ҉ -    Thread   | Download

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that's the first thing I checked. I have them set up as a slider and the needles got down when I press the pedals. I just tested again and all I had to do was tap the W key, then I could roll..

Intel I9-10850K (OC @ 5.0ghz) │ Asus Maximus XII Hero │ G.Skill Ripjaws 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3200 │ Thermaltake Water 360mm
Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24gb │ 2TB M.2 EVO Pro; 1T M.2 EVO; Sandisk SSD Drives │ 49" Samsung Curved Widescreen │ 28" Touchscreen

- ҉ - Blackshark Cockpit Trainer - ҉ -    Thread   | Download

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I do an instant action mission and start on the runway, the brakes are already applied!? The brake gauge says it's zero(no brakes). But if I throttle up I always nose over. I have to tap the W key to unlock the brakes. Then I can throttle up and roll without nosing over. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong.

 

I do have my pedals assigned to the brake axis. And I have a dead zone set to 20% so I am not ever pushing the brakes by accident. I have tested this several times and I always have to tap the Brakes key.

 

What I understand you are saying, is that you start an Instant Action scenario with 'Takeoff' and start on the runway, with engine running. The Brakes Pressure Indicators for left and right are both down (no brakes applied) and the Brake Handle on the stick is to the left (released). When you add throttle to accelerate for takeoff, the aircraft doesn't move, until you've add so much throttle that the aircraft noses over. It appears that the brakes are on but not indicated in any way. However, if you tap <W> (default brake key) the aircraft becomes free to role on the runway, as if tapping <W> released the brakes.

 

When you tap <W> do you see that the Brake Pressure Indicators and Brake Handel jump up to fully applied and then drop down again? This is what happens if you start a mission with the engine running (on the ground, as well as in the air) if an axis is not coordinated with a setting. For example, if you start on the ground with engine running, the in-cockpit RPM handle is all the way forward for 3000 RPM. But if you have a throttle axis set to the RPM handle, and have that throttle all the way back, the game doesn't recognize this until you start to adjust the RPM handle. Then it immediately jumps to all the way back and starts to follow your throttle lever.

 

What happens if you tap you brake pedals? Same thing as tapping <W>?

 

I've created a mission with a Spitfire starting from the runway, and started an Instant Action mission with 'Takeoff'. With both you start with engine running etc on the runway, and in neither are my brakes applied, and I am able to role on the runway without doing anything other than applying throttle.

  • Like 1

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great! Thanks. I had to invert the axis on my CH Pedals. They get assigned with a positive axis by default. But they need to be negative.

 

Thanks. Rep inbound.

Intel I9-10850K (OC @ 5.0ghz) │ Asus Maximus XII Hero │ G.Skill Ripjaws 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3200 │ Thermaltake Water 360mm
Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24gb │ 2TB M.2 EVO Pro; 1T M.2 EVO; Sandisk SSD Drives │ 49" Samsung Curved Widescreen │ 28" Touchscreen

- ҉ - Blackshark Cockpit Trainer - ҉ -    Thread   | Download

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great! Thanks. I had to invert the axis on my CH Pedals. They get assigned with a positive axis by default. But they need to be negative.

 

Thanks. Rep inbound.

 

:thumbup:

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a bit of getting used to, but so worth it just to hear the Merlin engine pop and crackle when you decrease boost during taxi.

Ryzen9 5800X3D, Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite, 32Gb Gskill Trident DDR4 3600 CL16, Samsung 990 Pr0 1Tb Nvme Gen4, Evo860 1Tb 2.5 SSD and Team 1Tb 2.5 SSD, MSI Suprim X RTX4090 , Corsair h115i Platinum AIO, NZXT H710i case, Seasonic Focus 850W psu, Gigabyte Aorus AD27QHD Gsync 1ms IPS 2k monitor 144Mhz, Track ir4, VKB Gunfighter Ultimate w/extension, Virpil T50 CM3 Throttle, Saitek terrible pedals, RiftS

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...