Situation awareness

Helloy guys,

Right now with the F/A-18 module my biggest struggle is situation awareness.

I am creating missions in the Mission editor and i am trying to find ways to improve on my SA, by now i can get to the target and destroy it but man ... i am struggling to actually keep track of what is going on around me.

I don´t know if this is possible in the F/A-18C lot 20 but i am wondering if you have the option to actually have PPT´s (Pre Planned Threat Steerpoints?). That would allow you to place independent "waypoints" from your Navigation route and thus have the position of the known SAM´s and AAA with the possibility to draw a threat circle.

For example i know that i have placed a SA-8 near the bridge i am targetting, but once in the Airplane my sole indicator for "range" is my RWR .. i know the plan to implement link 16 but apart from Link16 and RWR isn´t there a way to actually display known threats on your navigation map ?

Or is that what the SENSOR function is for on your MPCD (to be implemented right ?)

Also, i feel a little bit cut from the outside worl due to the lack of radio communications ?

Let´s say i want to strike my bridge, but i need escort .... F-15C´s flying fighter sweep or CAP .... what frequency do i need to be on to hear the comms from the Eagles when they engage ? It would really help my SA to know when and where they engage etc etc ...

For now, what i do is that i have a mental picture of my target area, i draw it on a sheet of paper and then i react and anticipate accordingly.

How about you guys ?

Only an expert can ask such question and more expert can answer.

First of all dont zoom in the view too much. keep the view where you can just read the HUD. scroll around to see right left. Or use Track ir for better immersion.

I dont have the model but I never had problems in SA in other models.

Keep in mind that ground units appear very very small like dots in the camera. Only at closer ranges u can see them and lock them.

You can easilt create waypoints and set speed, altitude etc on every way point. The navigation system will follow the waypoints.

Let´s say i want to strike my bridge, but i need escort .... F-15C´s flying fighter sweep or CAP .... what frequency do i need to be on to hear the comms from the Eagles when they engage ? It would really help my SA to know when and where they engage etc etc ...

The same freq you set the F-15 on in the mission editor, or the freq the mission creator told you in the briefing screen. A good mission creator should do that.

Thanks for the input guys, i will try it out :)

greenmamba, as drag80 mentioned, you can create extra waypoints to use as markers that will show up on your HSI.

One of the key extra waypoints I often use is BULLSEYE. I start by creating my planned route, and then add waypoints after my intended landing point. For example, let's say that my flight plan involves a PUSH point, a CP, an IP, an Egress Flow Point, an Egress Control Point, and landing. That's 6 waypoints.

After my landing point, I add a waypoint 7 at BULLSEYE to my flight plan. If I have a divert airfield, I add that as waypoint 8.

My mission timing always allows me a few minutes before takeoff to do some cockpit admin, and I use part of that time to modify the waypoint sequence that's automatically built in the F/A-18C. I remove waypoints from the first sequence that are not part of my actual flight plan. They'll still show up as a point on the HSI but won't be part of the auto sequencing.

Your idea for creating waypoints over key threat locations is a good one that you could implement the same way. Just tack them on to the end of the flight plan and remove them from the sequence.

You can also help identify them by using the waypoint name field (max 5 characters).

greenmamba, as drag80 mentioned, you can create extra waypoints to use as markers that will show up on your HSI.

 

 

One of the key extra waypoints I often use is BULLSEYE. I start by creating my planned route, and then add waypoints after my intended landing point. For example, let's say that my flight plan involves a PUSH point, a CP, an IP, an Egress Flow Point, an Egress Control Point, and landing. That's 6 waypoints.

 

 

After my landing point, I add a waypoint 7 at BULLSEYE to my flight plan. If I have a divert airfield, I add that as waypoint 8.

 

 

My mission timing always allows me a few minutes before takeoff to do some cockpit admin, and I use part of that time to modify the waypoint sequence that's automatically built in the F/A-18C. I remove waypoints from the first sequence that are not part of my actual flight plan. They'll still show up as a point on the HSI but won't be part of the auto sequencing.

 

 

Your idea for creating waypoints over key threat locations is a good one that you could implement the same way. Just tack them on to the end of the flight plan and remove them from the sequence.

 

 

You can also help identify them by using the waypoint name field (max 5 characters).

Thanks man, appreciate the input, will try out what you suggested :)

Funnily enough, when the SA page is implemented, your SA will increase..

Hopefully it’s not too far off.

What does the SA page do? sorry to ask but i didn´t take the time to dig trough the NATOPS manual yet.

What does the SA page do? sorry to ask but i didn´t take the time to dig trough the NATOPS manual yet.

It's the Hornet's equivalent of the HSD in the F-16, basically allows you to see radar & datalink contacts at the same time as the compass rose and waypoints/bullseye info you'd normally see on the HSI. It may or may not have a function for showing known SAM locations as well (we'll just have to see what ED put in there - I don't think there's much public information on what it can do).

the more you rely on aids the less you exercise your brains ability to juggle the sa picture

go fly some propjobs or korean era aircraft.

the more you rely on aids the less you exercise your brains ability to juggle the sa picture

 

go fly some propjobs or korean era aircraft.

Okay, please explain to me how you do it. I gave different reasons why I struggle with my SA.

AI wingman is not of great help in DCs and unless you script AI to communicate radios are silent .... and when you fly an airplane that has not sensors telling you what is around you ... it is actually like being in a situation where you don’t know what is around you unless you see it. Which makes it easier to develop your SA since you are not overhelmed with inputs from your sensors.

Fly in prop era planes or Korea era planes .... there was no BVR fighting, everything was done with visual detection or rudimentary sensor help compared to today. Air to ground threats were lethal but not as complex as they are today .....

Take your prop era plane or Korea era plane and fly in a scenario with today’s threats and we will see how survivable you are with the SA you build flying those planes. You will never see or know about incoming SAM ..... or BVR missile .... or when you are locked on.

What I am talking about is how hard it is right now to augment my SA ...

IF I am going in for a strike mission on a bridge that is defended by SAM’s , AAA,and MIG-29,s armed with R77 .... my basic SA won’t help very much unless AI communicates.

In some scenarios you need to have a bigger picture to develop your SA and blustery because you have those sensors doesn’t mean you will have a good one, if you don’t know how to use it.

So I guess, going flying prop era planes and Korean era planes won’t help much in that complex scenario.

It's the Hornet's equivalent of the HSD in the F-16, basically allows you to see radar & datalink contacts at the same time as the compass rose and waypoints/bullseye info you'd normally see on the HSI. It may or may not have a function for showing known SAM locations as well (we'll just have to see what ED put in there - I don't think there's much public information on what it can do).

Nice! That would be really cool to have it implemented. It would actually help a lot. I always try to figure out where the FLOT is and how it will evolve and I try to avoid roads or cities where threats my pop-up .....anyhow would be a nice addition.

When you fly into an area protected by SAM, AAA and Mig-29 you have a bigger problem than your SA, your problem is how deep to insert your boot into the ass of that mission planner who sent you on a suicide mission. You need CAP and SEAD...

For known threats you can create waypoints

I'm told that A-10C drivers working Afghanistan got one "Fam Hop" (Familiarization Flight) of the general area and the next day they went to work using maps and comms with JTACs.

I think the bottom line takeaway from this situation is:

1) Learn your aircraft cold. Make it a second skin where you don't have to think about how to operate any and all functions, sensors, etc. That line from "Top Gun" is true: "You don't have time to think. If you think, you die"

2) Take the time to get to know the general layout of the map you're on (or at least your AO) Where are the major landmarks? Dams, cities, highways, bridges, mountains, factories, rivers, etc. Literally go "Sight Seeing" when you're not running a mission or flying on a combat server. The better you know the terrain, the easier it is to maintain SA by simply looking outside. The helmet-mounted sight is meant to increase "Head Up" time!

3) Know Your Role and its Limits...

In our squadron, we carry AIM-9s into combat on our Warthogs, but our doctrine says "Don't let yourself get sucked into a situation where you have to use them." When AWACS calls "Pop Up Group" that's our cue to start thinking about getting out of Dodge. We also don't have our Hornet drivers "double dip" both ground strikes and flying CAP. They either move mud or they fly top cover but never both. The Hornet is "Multi Role" but they are not all equal in every given situation. Prioritize your tasks and don't try to be "Superman" in the cockpit.

4) Study Your Route...

If you're tasked with a strike mission, start at the target and work your way back to your IP, your CP and your ingress route. Are there places you can terrain mask? Are you naked and exposed for too long on a given leg? Where might the enemy put their defenses and how can I work around them? Something I encountered the other day during a training flight was that I did not take our two-ship down in the weeds before we turned toward our target. That could tell a potential adversary (and we have Aggressors in our squadron) which way you're going to your target. If you're flying north before you turn west, get low while still going north. A human GCI will see your last known heading and send fighters to intercept. If they know you're going west, they will set up west of you. If they see you disappear while still going north, then they may not be in your way when you do actually turn west. Same for AI. Get in the weeds before you head to your target.

Just some thoughts... Keep at it. Success in combat is very rewarding and it comes much more easily if / when you can avoid "Helmet Fires" and losing control of your situation.

Good Luck!

When you fly into an area protected by SAM, AAA and Mig-29 you have a bigger problem than your SA, your problem is how deep to insert your boot into the ass of that mission planner who sent you on a suicide mission. You need CAP and SEAD...

 

For known threats you can create waypoints

Hahahahaha :smilewink:

Emmy's advice is very good. Not that it's easy to handle that, as well. There must be a reason fighter pilots get this extensive training after all, yet they do have only one life.

A thing I noticed in your first post, you tell about RWR being the only indication for "range".

I don't know, but are you aware, the RWR does only provide direction and THREAT priority? It can't display distance, only the direction and a guess of what is the highest threat to you. In the F/A-18C the more to the center the higher the threat.

If you can keep a SA-8 symbol (e.g.) on the outer ring, by flying around it, it likely never gets to launch conditions.

I'm told that A-10C drivers working Afghanistan got one "Fam Hop" (Familiarization Flight) of the general area and the next day they went to work using maps and comms with JTACs.

 

I think the bottom line takeaway from this situation is:

1) Learn your aircraft cold. Make it a second skin where you don't have to think about how to operate any and all functions, sensors, etc. That line from "Top Gun" is true: "You don't have time to think. If you think, you die"

 

2) Take the time to get to know the general layout of the map you're on (or at least your AO) Where are the major landmarks? Dams, cities, highways, bridges, mountains, factories, rivers, etc. Literally go "Sight Seeing" when you're not running a mission or flying on a combat server. The better you know the terrain, the easier it is to maintain SA by simply looking outside. The helmet-mounted sight is meant to increase "Head Up" time!

 

3) Know Your Role and its Limits...

In our squadron, we carry AIM-9s into combat on our Warthogs, but our doctrine says "Don't let yourself get sucked into a situation where you have to use them." When AWACS calls "Pop Up Group" that's our cue to start thinking about getting out of Dodge. We also don't have our Hornet drivers "double dip" both ground strikes and flying CAP. They either move mud or they fly top cover but never both. The Hornet is "Multi Role" but they are not all equal in every given situation. Prioritize your tasks and don't try to be "Superman" in the cockpit.

 

4) Study Your Route...

If you're tasked with a strike mission, start at the target and work your way back to your IP, your CP and your ingress route. Are there places you can terrain mask? Are you naked and exposed for too long on a given leg? Where might the enemy put their defenses and how can I work around them? Something I encountered the other day during a training flight was that I did not take our two-ship down in the weeds before we turned toward our target. That could tell a potential adversary (and we have Aggressors in our squadron) which way you're going to your target. If you're flying north before you turn west, get low while still going north. A human GCI will see your last known heading and send fighters to intercept. If they know you're going west, they will set up west of you. If they see you disappear while still going north, then they may not be in your way when you do actually turn west. Same for AI. Get in the weeds before you head to your target.

 

Just some thoughts... Keep at it. Success in combat is very rewarding and it comes much more easily if / when you can avoid "Helmet Fires" and losing control of your situation.

 

Good Luck!

Thanks man! Some very good points and a nice read. I’ll take all that in :pilotfly:

Also identify your problem, stop the sim and deal with it. Currently for my case, is spotting targets on ground with mark one eyeball and being able to yank and bank and still have an idea where the target is.

No harm in using all the tools for training on these things :)

Case 1 recovery is a great example of a lot that has to be done in a very short time.

Try and break it up. Real pilots learn in sections as well :)

When you fly into an area protected by SAM, AAA and Mig-29 you have a bigger problem than your SA, your problem is how deep to insert your boot into the ass of that mission planner who sent you on a suicide mission. You need CAP and SEAD...

 

For known threats you can create waypoints

What a howl and oh so true. I enjoy the user made missions but most suffer from mission planners not really knowing how mission planning is actually done. I have to change and modify almost every mission I've to be more balanced. Challenging, but balanced. One fun suicide missions was an attack on an overly defended airfield. Impossible to survive, even if you successfully fight your way past the naval ships and air cap. No one today would a) be caught sending multi million dollar aircraft on a mission without any recon to know what they're up against, 2) no one today would arm an f-18 with dumb bombs and fly over a site with 20 sams and 30 AAA sites. The folly of that type of gung ho crap was learned in the 60's.

With respect to SA, it's simply a learning thing. The best advice is to pause and look around, learn things in steps, and practice. Getting your ass kicked in ACM training pays off. Learning to fly at 50 feet AGL and using ground cover to sneak into a target pays off. No magic formula...just practice and don't give up or get discouraged.

What a howl and oh so true. I enjoy the user made missions but most suffer from mission planners not really knowing how mission planning is actually done. I have to change and modify almost every mission I've to be more balanced. Challenging, but balanced. One fun suicide missions was an attack on an overly defended airfield. Impossible to survive, even if you successfully fight your way past the naval ships and air cap. No one today would a) be caught sending multi million dollar aircraft on a mission without any recon to know what they're up against, 2) no one today would arm an f-18 with dumb bombs and fly over a site with 20 sams and 30 AAA sites. The folly of that type of gung ho crap was learned in the 60's.

 

 

With respect to SA, it's simply a learning thing. The best advice is to pause and look around, learn things in steps, and practice. Getting your ass kicked in ACM training pays off. Learning to fly at 50 feet AGL and using ground cover to sneak into a target pays off. No magic formula...just practice and don't give up or get discouraged.

I hate those kamikaze missions which are highly unrealistic .... especially in today’s age where you never go in alone and where a lot of targets and threats have been dealt with tomahawks or any other stand off means.

Your brain has a certain command throughput rate at which it can process information. Don't let anyone tell you humans can multitask, we simply can't, period.

What we can do however, is make the taskload as light as possible by automating certain tasks up to a level where there is minimal brain power needed to perform that task. Guess what, flying your aircraft and handling the aircraft systems comes first. Get that done to an almost automated state and you've got brain capacity to spare to use for communications, building SA, leadership/followship and making good decisions.

Training, training and again training. Not train ill you get it right, train until you can't do it wrong.

Emmy's advice is very good. Not that it's easy to handle that, as well. There must be a reason fighter pilots get this extensive training after all, yet they do have only one life.

A thing I noticed in your first post, you tell about RWR being the only indication for "range".

I don't know, but are you aware, the RWR does only provide direction and THREAT priority? It can't display distance, only the direction and a guess of what is the highest threat to you. In the F/A-18C the more to the center the higher the threat.

If you can keep a SA-8 symbol (e.g.) on the outer ring, by flying around it, it likely never gets to launch conditions.

Yes I am aware of that. Must be a typo error from my part. That was actually my point, Besides having a direction info of the threat I don’t have it’s position or I don’t have a visual cue about the lethal range of the SAM.

I have no problem with pop-up threats, since usually I don’t go below 15 000 feet in the first days of the virtual conflict. Way too much stuff down there to kill you amongst tanks and other pieces of metal.

I usually divide my visual scans in sectors and constantly look around, looking for missile departures or smoke trails. I take a look at my rwr and I build a mental picture of what is around me.

In the mission planning I look at the threats that are visible and I make a note on paper and i update that mental picture with what I see or what my sensors detect in flight. Then to that layer I add an air to air picture based on what my rwr senses and using awacs. All that is constantly evolving ..... I know where I can go and not and if engaged by ennemi airplanes I also know where friendly planes have CAP’s or I draw them into friendly SAM threat circles.

I just wish I had something similar to the HSD in the F-16 so I could at least have a better pictures with pre planned threats.

Mental SA .... improves everyday I fly virtually and you guys have some very good inputs and tips, awesome community you guys have here.

Your brain has a certain command throughput rate at which it can process information. Don't let anyone tell you humans can multitask, we simply can't, period.

 

What we can do however, is make the taskload as light as possible by automating certain tasks up to a level where there is minimal brain power needed to perform that task. Guess what, flying your aircraft and handling the aircraft systems comes first. Get that done to an almost automated state and you've got brain capacity to spare to use for communications, building SA, leadership/followship and making good decisions.

 

Training, training and again training. Not train ill you get it right, train until you can't do it wrong.

You remember me of my first instructor :pilotfly:

"Situational" Sorry I had to.

I find Tacview to be an invaluable tool for working out what just happened.