LSO Calls

Great job on the Supercarrier manual! I am looking forward to seeing the rest of it when available.

Now I know it is still early WIP, but I'd like to point out that the manual uses the phrases "Left for lineup" and "Come right" from the LSO. It was my understanding (from sources named below) that these two phrases are not used, and that it is always "Come left" and "Right for lineup".

Is it an oversight or do you have sources that say otherwise?

Sources: CNATRA P-111 (Carrier Qualification) and LSO NATOPS

Probably oversight. I'd better start reading this PDF. I have it DL'd and haven't peeked in there yet!

Yeah, I noted those discrepancies as well. If I understood correctly IRL only the calls mentioned by Robin Hood are used to make them recognizable and distinguishable even if only parts of the transmission are received by the pilot (like, if he only hears "come ..xxx" he knows it must be "come left").

I just hope this is a lapse in the documentation and does not correspond to the actually recorded voice-overs. That being said, at least some of the voiceovers were done by people with RL carrier ops expercience so I am confident they would have noted these during the recordings... :-)

Another minor mistake that I noted: On pages 36 and 49 in the "Landing" paragraphs it reads "Then [i.e.:after landing], release the brakes and allow the aircraft to be pulled back". I think we agree that (wheel) brakes are not used during deck landings at all, hence no need to release them... :music_whistling:

Additionally, there is no radial intercept during departures during case III and I - according to CNATRA P-1211 p.61+62

Additionally, there is no radial intercept during case III and I - according to CNATRA P-1211 p.61+62

The CNATRA document has a lot of artificialities for flight students. It is not entirely correct for what real fleet pilots do.

Additionally, there is no radial intercept during case III and I - according to CNATRA P-1211 p.61+62

I'm not sure I follow. According to Hornet drivers out there almost all typical Case III ops are executed with marshalls offset from BRC, necessarily implying in intercepting the BRC radial once commencing. Done for separation purposes. Marshalling at the BRC is usually reserved for special (ie, emergency) situations.

Point of order: BRC does not exist during CASE III recoveries. Only FB does. They differ by about 9-10 degrees.

Edit: on an unrelated note: for the CASE III Bolter/Waveoff pattern...retract the gear and retract the flaps to half. Speed 150.

Point of order: BRC does not exist during CASE III recoveries. Only FB does. They differ by about 9-10 degrees.

 

Edit: on an unrelated note: for the CASE III Bolter/Waveoff pattern...retract the gear and retract the flaps to half. Speed 150.

Thanks for clearing that up GB. FB is indeed what I meant to say and I thought in this context it could be used interchangeably with BRC. Stopping to think about it for a few seconds obviates that misconception. Thanks.

GB, the hornet waveoff pattern for case III you mentioned was wing specific or is it adopted throughout the fleet? I hear some of these things are sometimes CAG or squadron specific.

Edit: on an unrelated note: for the CASE III Bolter/Waveoff pattern...retract the gear and retract the flaps to half. Speed 150.

It crossed my mind few times when I was dragging my butt with full flaps and gear down. It's a long way to go at on-speed. I did re-trim for around 150.

By the way, in case1 after bolter do you climb out to 600' at ~150kts also? I know the on-speed resets to 4(?) after wheels slam on deck or I'm confusing it with something else?

Thanks for clearing that up GB. FB is indeed what I meant to say and I thought in this context it could be used interchangeably with BRC. Stopping to think about it for a few seconds obviates that misconception. Thanks.

 

GB, the hornet waveoff pattern for case III you mentioned was wing specific or is it adopted throughout the fleet? I hear some of these things are sometimes CAG or squadron specific.

That would be like saying the break is at 800 feet for some airwings and not others. The Bolter/Waveoff pattern is CV NATOPS. It’s standardized universally and individuals (or individual airwings) cannot simply deviate.

I crossed my mind few times when I was dragging my butt with full flaps and gear down. It's a long way to go at on-speed. I did re-trim for around 150.

By the way, in case1 after bolter do you climb out to 600' at ~150kts also? I know the on-speed resets to 4(?) after wheels slam on deck or I'm confusing it with something else?

Upon Bolter or Waveoff, climb to 600 feet and remain onspeed in the current configuration. For CASE I/II.

The bolter/waveoff pattern for CASE III is significantly different.

That would be like saying the break is at 800 feet for some airwings and not others. The Bolter/Waveoff pattern is CV NATOPS. It’s standardized universally and individuals (or individual airwings) cannot simply deviate.

gotcha thanks

Is CV2 approach used on occasion for Case 3?

Is CV2 approach used on occasion for Case 3?

It is only used if the airspace is too tight for a CV-1. Overall, it’s extremely (and I mean extremely) rare to do a CV-2, either for real or practice. It gets pretty interesting when the airwing decides to practice it :).

It is only used if the airspace is too tight for a CV-1. Overall, it’s extremely (and I mean extremely) rare to do a CV-2, either for real or practice. It gets pretty interesting when the airwing decides to practice it :).

I tried it a while back. Somehow I ended up on the wrong side of the boat... of course it had to happen in MP with everyone watching and correcting:director:

I'm not sure I follow. According to Hornet drivers out there almost all typical Case III ops are executed with marshalls offset from BRC, necessarily implying in intercepting the BRC radial once commencing. Done for separation purposes. Marshalling at the BRC is usually reserved for special (ie, emergency) situations.

I meant during departure.

Obviously the marshall is flown with an offset, that's correct :D

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Additionally, there is no radial intercept during departures during case III and I - according to CNATRA P-1211 p.61+62

There are radial intercept procedures for CASE II and III departure. The departure reference radial (DRR) is only intercepted if required.

There are radial intercept procedures for CASE II and III departure. The departure reference radial (DRR) is only intercepted if required.

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New to me, thanks!

 

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No problem. Like I said, I’d be VERY careful with that CNATRA document. Lots of artificialities in there just for T-45 students. A good number of things in there does not apply to what winged aviators and fleet pilots fly (the “real deal”).

Great job on the Supercarrier manual! I am looking forward to seeing the rest of it when available.

 

Now I know it is still early WIP, but I'd like to point out that the manual uses the phrases "Left for lineup" and "Come right" from the LSO. It was my understanding (from sources named below) that these two phrases are not used, and that it is always "Come left" and "Right for lineup".

 

Is it an oversight or do you have sources that say otherwise?

 

Sources: CNATRA P-111 (Carrier Qualification) and LSO NATOPS

Where is this manual to be found?

Where is this manual to be found?

My bad, I meant CNATRA P-1211. A quick google search of both "CNATRA P-1211" and "LSO MANUAL" should give you what you're looking for.