Air-to-Ground Radar modes

Now that's just a ridiculous statement. It already has so much, and has more than doubled in complexity since it first released into Early Access

nonsense

I didn't mean to make anyone angry, take it easy. The fact that the Hornet looks complex to you doesn't mean that its interface of simulating real systems is there. I'm talking about the relationship between parts of the plane that are in a game state. Every early access module is in a sort of game mode, otherwise things would not work. I wasn't saying in any way that the Hornet is bad. For example, without just one of many of the systems that ED is still to code, there would be 90% of the plane that would not work in real life but does in DCS. THAT'S why I was saying it is in a game mode. Again, take it easy please.

Can I ask, what does AG mode give the aircraft in terms of offensive capability that we dont get with the TGP and Laser / TOO modes?

Anyone got any links to non-confidential data on its performance?

GM, GMT, SEA and SEA 2 for F16. Will these be the same for Hornet ?

The Hornet has the option of a synthetic aperture, which the Viper doesn't.

Can I ask, what does AG mode give the aircraft in terms of offensive capability that we dont get with the TGP and Laser / TOO modes?

 

Anyone got any links to non-confidential data on its performance?

The TGP is like looking through a drinking straw. It gives you a tunnel vision, which is great to take a detailed look at a certain position, but it's really bad to get an overview over an entire area. The AG radar mode gives you just that, an overview over the ground situation of an entire area (in front of you). It's not as detailed as a TGP is. Just imagine you would need to use the TGO find a ship within 100+km² of ocean. It would be a nightmare. With the radar you can scan hundreds of km in an instant and the ship would appear as a blip on its position, similar to air contacts on the AA radar. You're not using the TGP to search for air contacts either, do you?

It also has a mode to highlight moving contacts, which is great to find enemy vehicle formations on the move.

Here's a very early WIP pic of the ground radar:

DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

Work is mostly focused on the air-to-ground radar that is making good progress; the team is now starting to create the various sub-modes such as the expanded modes. We have included a couple of images that show samples of the new air-to-ground radar technology that is based on radar reflectivity logic.

 

Thanks QuiGon, so if you find a blip on the radar that looks like Armour for example, you can then slew the TGP to designate assuming the AG Radar doesnt have enough definition to say "its a T-80" ?

This Hornet's AG radar picture is from 2015....

Thanks QuiGon, so if you find a blip on the radar that looks like Armour for example, you can then slew the TGP to designate assuming the AG Radar doesnt have enough definition to say "its a T-80" ?

Exactly, although I'm not sure if the resolution will be good enough to recognize a vehicle as being armour or even good enough to recognize it as a vehicle at all. It might be difficult to tell apart a vehicle from a small building (e.g. a garage). That's why the AG radar will be most effective in the open dessert or especially on water as ships stand out pretty well.

This Hornet's AG radar picture is from 2015....

I did say "very early WIP pic", did I not?

Cheers mate.

DCS Tornado IDS for me!

Can I ask, what does AG mode give the aircraft in terms of offensive capability that we dont get with the TGP and Laser / TOO modes?

It works in bad weather - TGP doesn't

Whilst DCS multi-player always exists in clear skies (or nearly so) Atlantic/Pacific/Indian Ocean, Scandanavia/NW Europe/Balkans/Korea etc are notorious for having alot of fog/cloud/rain...which renders the TGP ineffective.

It works in bad weather - TGP doesn't

Radar is also affected by clouds and rain.

Radar is also affected by clouds and rain.

Yes but not as badly as IR/optical wavelengths.

Can I ask, what does AG mode give the aircraft in terms of offensive capability that we dont get with the TGP and Laser / TOO modes?

If you have no JTAC and you only know about a large generic area where targets should be and/or are constantly moving through, you can trace them more easily by radar than by TGP.

Detecting ships at long ranges for the Harpoon comes to my mind.

Detecting ships at long ranges for the Harpoon comes to my mind.

Exactly, naval warfare is probably where the AG radar will be the most useful for. Besides naval recce, it will provide us with new targeting modes for the Harpoon.

Exactly, although I'm not sure if the resolution will be good enough to recognize a vehicle as being armour or even good enough to recognize it as a vehicle at all. It might be difficult to tell apart a vehicle from a small building (e.g. a garage). That's why the AG radar will be most effective in the open dessert or especially on water as ships stand out pretty well.

One thing to keep in mind is that the image from 2015 represented a radar "image" from the work done on Pusle-Doppler. We are getting SAR imaging in the Hornet.

The image also did not represent the EXP mode for Pulse-Doppler.

Radar is also affected by clouds and rain.

Modern ones as well?? I don't that a problem for the Hornet's radar. Or are we talking about specifically in AG mode?

Modern ones as well?? I don't that a problem for the Hornet's radar. Or are we talking about specifically in AG mode?

In real life, anything that can create a return can disrupt what the pilot sees on his display; be it A/G or A/A. That is not modeled, currently, in DCS - AFAIK.

In real life, anything that can create a return can disrupt what the pilot sees on his display; be it A/G or A/A. That is not modeled, currently, in DCS - AFAIK.

I thought that doppler took care of bad weather.

I thought that doppler took care of bad weather.

To some extent yes, but clouds can be somewhat opaque to radar waves just like they are to optical/IR light. If stuff is opaque you can't see what's behind it by definition.

In real life, anything that can create a return can disrupt what the pilot sees on his display; be it A/G or A/A. That is not modeled, currently, in DCS - AFAIK.

The Mig-21's radar does display clouds, and has some rudimentary way of filtering them out. Other modules don't do that as far as I know.

One thing to keep in mind is that the image from 2015 represented a radar "image" from the work done on Pusle-Doppler.

If you used a Doppler gate on AG radar mode, you would throw away the interesting part in the filter. The Doppler gate is used in AA radar modes to supress noise from ground clutter and enable lookdown.

I thought that doppler took care of bad weather.

Remember, Doppler is how the weather channel can "see" clouds or storms as they approach.

Remember, Doppler is how the weather channel can "see" clouds or storms as they approach.

Yes I know. I still don't think a modern radar in AA mode will see any bad weather on screen.

Yes I know. I still don't think a modern radar in AA mode will see any bad weather on screen.

A modern radar in A/A radar mode will not display weather on a B-scope. However, in A/G mode in a real beam map setting, it most definitely can see and display weather.

A modern radar in A/A radar mode will not display weather on a B-scope. However, in A/G mode in a real beam map setting, it most definitely can see and display weather.

Roger, that's what I asked before but nobody said anything :)

Thanks QuiGon, so if you find a blip on the radar that looks like Armour for example, you can then slew the TGP to designate assuming the AG Radar doesnt have enough definition to say "its a T-80" ?

In reality you wouldn't get a "blip" on the radar as any good MBT commander has camouflaged their vehicles against radars and FLIR (everyone should remember that MBT's are there to be hunted not by aircrafts but by recon teams, ATGM teams, IFV's and other MBT's that all has thermals) and even when they are on the move on the off-road, you don't get them jumping in the radar screen by their movement. If they would travel on the highways etc paved roads and you have LOS to them, then they can get revealed that there is something moving but you don't get anything else than "Check that out", and you have all the trees etc doing that similar thing as well. So you have lots of false confirms about moving behicles.

In the more modern radars than what our Hornet and Viper will have, mainly about the airborne recon aircrafts or such like F-35 now, can try to identify the target by their return with 3D model library to find a match. But this is again requirement that each vehicle is not concealed by their crews like it would happen in symmetric war, unlike in asymmetric where you have enemy that doesn't have tech to do so.

The A-G radar we get is mainly for finding larger ships on the sea. Navy has been even patrolling drug traffickers and they can't find their small fast boats.