G-limiter override characteristics

I've noticed that when'ever I hold down the G-limiter override paddle the transition when from below to beyond the regular G limit isn't at all smooth, but rather it happens with kind of a jolt.

In other words it doesn't seem possible to gradually increase G's to a certain point beyond the regular limit, from say 1 to 8 G's, the latter being over the regular limit. Instead as soon as you reach the regular limit, say 6.5 G, having held down the paddle all the way, *bang* you almost instantly hit 8.1 G's as soon as you cross that 6.5 G boundary.

Is this really how it should be? Violent jolts like that are quite unsettling in a real plane.

Yup.

The override is an emergency tool. You basically remove all flight computer safe gards for over G protection.

Asking the flight computer for the ability to over G the airframe can be quit disturbing. BFM is violent in the real plane.

- hope this helps

You’d be hard pressed to find out what it feels like in the real plane, because it’s used so extraordinarily rarely. I don’t personally know of anyone that has.

Yup.

 

The override is an emergency tool. You basically remove all flight computer safe gards for over G protection.

 

Asking the flight computer for the ability to over G the airframe can be quit disturbing. BFM is violent in the real plane.

 

- hope this helps

I understand that you're removing the safe guards, however what I don't understand is why it jolts when you've held down the paddle from even before you started pulling? In other words I don't understand how there can't be a smooth transition as long as you hold down the paddle BEFORE you start pulling the stick back.

After all a gradual onset of G's is always better for the airframe than a sudden violent one.

I believe you also switch off some dampers in this case of "emergency"

Like in the KA-50 when you hold the trim button.

I understand that you're removing the safe guards, however what I don't understand is why it jolts when you've held down the paddle from even before you started pulling? In other words I don't understand how there can't be a smooth transition as long as you hold down the paddle BEFORE you start pulling the stick back.

 

After all a gradual onset of G's is always better for the airframe than a sudden violent one.

Why would you hold down an emergency override BEFORE you start pulling? The jolt that occurs when fully aft stick and FCS limited and then overriding is because the tailerons are no longer commanded by the FCS and move quickly to full travel as commanded by your stick position.

BTW Aircraft fatigue is measured by G applications and onset rate is not even measured. Well not in the jets that I have flown but if you have information to the contrary then please share as I would be interested.

Why would you hold down an emergency override BEFORE you start pulling? The jolt that occurs when fully aft stick and FCS limited and then overriding is because the tailerons are no longer commanded by the FCS and move quickly to full travel as commanded by your stick position.

 

BTW Aircraft fatigue is measured by G applications and onset rate is not even measured. Well not in the jets that I have flown but if you have information to the contrary then please share as I would be interested.

It seems to me that the FCS is still in control since you only get 30% more G. So if you are heavily loaded and the FCS is currently limiting you to 5.5g you will not be able to pull 10 gs like you can with a lightly loaded plane.

What is that paddle specifically called in the controls menu?

its set with NWS disengage and A/P disengage

Why would you hold down an emergency override BEFORE you start pulling? The jolt that occurs when fully aft stick and FCS limited and then overriding is because the tailerons are no longer commanded by the FCS and move quickly to full travel as commanded by your stick position.

To avoid an instant jolt of 2 to 3 extra G's once you cross the regular limit.

It just doesn't make sense to me that a smooth gradual increase in G's can't be achieved past the regular G limit.

An instant onset of 2-3 G's only makes sense if you start by pulling the stick fully back and then afterwards depress the paddle, because then the horizontal stabs will ofcourse immediately go full deflection as soon as you disable the G limiter.

While I understand what you are getting at, a question comes to mind.

Why would you need to go past 7.5 G limit?

Dive recovery is one major example.

True and valid

Dive recovery is one major example.

That's a good reason indeed.

It seems to me that the FCS is still in control since you only get 30% more G. So if you are heavily loaded and the FCS is currently limiting you to 5.5g you will not be able to pull 10 gs like you can with a lightly loaded plane.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's fly-by-wire - the FCS is always in control.

To avoid an instant jolt of 2 to 3 extra G's once you cross the regular limit.

 

It just doesn't make sense to me that a smooth gradual increase in G's can't be achieved past the regular G limit.

 

An instant onset of 2-3 G's only makes sense if you start by pulling the stick fully back and then afterwards depress the paddle, because then the horizontal stabs will ofcourse immediately go full deflection as soon as you disable the G limiter.

there is you just hold this button and you can apply smooth increase of gs :P

I've noticed that when'ever I hold down the G-limiter override paddle the transition when from below to beyond the regular G limit isn't at all smooth, but rather it happens with kind of a jolt.

 

In other words it doesn't seem possible to gradually increase G's to a certain point beyond the regular limit, from say 1 to 8 G's, the latter being over the regular limit. Instead as soon as you reach the regular limit, say 6.5 G, having held down the paddle all the way, *bang* you almost instantly hit 8.1 G's as soon as you cross that 6.5 G boundary.

 

Is this really how it should be? Violent jolts like that are quite unsettling in a real plane.

"Jolt" only happens if you are physically already passed the commanded G with your joystick once you activate override. If you are holding the override all the way, there is no jolt.. if it happens, check your joystick settings/curves.

"Jolt" only happens if you are physically already passed the commanded G with your joystick once you activate override. If you are holding the override all the way, there is no jolt.. if it happens, check your joystick settings/curves.

exactly! If your stick position happens to be at the max G limit ( say 7.5g) then pulling the override paddle will have no effect. If your stick is all the way back then the G onset will jolt.

there is you just hold this button and you can apply smooth increase of gs :P

No, that's exactly the problem, you can't get a smooth increase even if you hold down the button from level flight to end of turn. The aircraft always quickly jolts up 2-3 G's once you reach the normal limit, preventing a smooth transition.

"Jolt" only happens if you are physically already passed the commanded G with your joystick once you activate override. If you are holding the override all the way, there is no jolt.. if it happens, check your joystick settings/curves.

There is definitely a jolt, check it.

Go 450 knots, level flight, depress & hold the override lever and then start a turn to either side where you gradually increase the G's. Once you hit the original limit decided by the FCS the aircraft will jolt on 2 extra G's so you go from say 6.5 to 8.5 G's in an instant, eventhough you were pulling back the stick gently.

Hmm... If that's really the case I feel like it's not right...

But I also feel like it's not the case. Let me go check real quick.

Hmm... If that's really the case I feel like it's not right...

 

 

But I also feel like it's not the case. Let me go check real quick.

Yes please, you can also use the info bar (ctrl+Y) to check that it isn't simply the HUD spassing out.

Sorry I was a bit out of date with updates :)...

I've updated and will test now :)

OK Nevermind... My stick drivers are being weird and I don't have time to fix it right now :(

I just tried it and it worked good. It does give a little kick when pulling the lever but I wouldn't call it a jolt. More like instant acceleration.

He's talkin about when you pull the lever while the stick is centered, then pull the stick.

He's saying that when you get to where the limit "would" be, with the lever already pulled, then the G's jump. I don't recall this being the case before so I wanted to test but just can't put time into it right now.

What he's NOT saying is that he's pulling the stick to full travel, then pulling the override lever. That's not what he's talking about. It should jump in that scenario.