Doesn't A-10C feel more flight capable in real life?

We know that due to legal reasons some things are toned down or left unimplemented intentionally, it's not my intention to restart the engine power drama back (I just read old stuff, wasn't part of it at the time) but it does look like the DCS version is more ... let me say sluggish in terms of how it looks on camera in this real life example, if that's a correct observation.

I just saw this video on my Youtube dashboard:

The particular A10-C part is at timecode 3:11:47

I remember the engine discussion had about not enough power, but I can see here it feels like it can roll faster, pull tighter corners faster, if it has to be that way that's fine.

The module may be updated overall too with the cockpit update so maybe something like this would be tuned in future, if there's an artificial barrier maybe it would be relaxed a bit as time passes.

So the question is, am I right or it's just an illusion inside the game world and I'm not using correct ingame camera angles and zoom ? PS: I don't have a high end joystick/HOTAS.

EDIT: Rewrote some of the parts to make things more coherent and typos fixed. What I've speculated but forgot to mention is that they could be using much less total weight as usual, no missiles or bombs, but I've flown barebone A10-C in DCS as well and still, I will try it again tho.

This one those thing that will always be debated.

I suggest that instead of watching a video that does not tell you the weight of the aircraft speed to enter maneuver etc. Why not go to https://www.e-publishing.af.mil, look for the the actual air show manual (AFI 11-246) which has no releasability restrictions and it is free to down load from the USAF themselves and see how to set up the aircraft: what weight you should have, what speed to enter maneuvers, at what altitude etc. How close you can get to the performance on a standard day in DCS? Keep in mind in DCS you should have additional drag from pylons.

I feel the same as you, I can't actually add anything here, but it feels like the A-10 both A and C in DCS should be a bit more powerful in flight capabilities, and maneuverability. It feels like its difficult to climb even with a clean aircraft, the plane starts to spin out if there are too many G's pulled. I feel like it should be easily capable of 400-550 knots and easily able to climb.

If I load my DCS A-10C like its loaded in the video, I have no problem doing the same maneuvers. Its all about weight and knowing the speed you need to maximize turning performance. That being said, the Oshkosh performance of those A-10Cs is actually a bit tame compared to what they're actually capable of in the right conditions.

The Demo birds we see at air shows are flying clean with maybe a half load of gas and no ammo in the gun either. They are also being max performed by high-time pilots who know the figures cold.

400-500kts IAS? No way...

In game, try flying into combat with load outs that are closer to “real world” (eg two Mavericks and not six...) and a couple of JDAMs. The A-10C can be a modern B-17 but it usually is not employed that way IRL.

In game, try flying into combat with load outs that are closer to “real world” (eg two Mavericks and not six...) and a couple of JDAMs. The A-10C can be a modern B-17 but it usually is not employed that way IRL.

Yup. I loaded mine like a B-17 for high altitude plinking missions for the longest time before trying some missions where you have to stay in the weeds and needed maneuverability. Loading it like a B-17 made it fly like one. I cut my load down to 4 Mavericks, and 80% fuel, and she can bob and weave like crazy. I can still make it fall out of the sky though if I don't have the right speed and energy for a maneuver. Practice, practice, practice. :pilotfly:

I feel the same as you, I can't actually add anything here, but it feels like the A-10 both A and C in DCS should be a bit more powerful in flight capabilities, and maneuverability. It feels like its difficult to climb even with a clean aircraft, the plane starts to spin out if there are too many G's pulled. I feel like it should be easily capable of 400-550 knots and easily able to climb.

LMAO. What makes you “feel” this way? The real A-10C has a cruise speed of 260Knots and a max do not exceed speed of 400 knots. As in during a dive don’t go that speed. You are feeling that the aircraft should go fast enough that it would cause the real thing to break up.

I just tried it, using Open Beta 2.5.5.33552, following Air Force Instruction 11-246 (2016)

You can do all maneuver describe with aircraft having 29% fuel (3100 lbs at start up) zero gun ammo and zero chaff/flare. If you look from the crowd point of view or from the pit it looks just like the RL demo...well I miss all my entry altitudes and speed ( to fast or to high) but the aircraft handle no problems.

RL demo 2011( high show on 11-246)

My second practice run, I crash on the first one. You can see I mess up all the maneuvers but the aircraft was more than capable.

A-10C demo second try.trk

The Demo birds we see at air shows are flying clean with maybe a half load of gas and no ammo in the gun either. They are also being max performed by high-time pilots who know the figures cold.

 

400-500kts IAS? No way...

 

In game, try flying into combat with load outs that are closer to “real world” (eg two Mavericks and not six...) and a couple of JDAMs. The A-10C can be a modern B-17 but it usually is not employed that way IRL.

No chaff or flare either I'm guessing and I know it's not a lot of extra weight but every bit counts in air show setups. I remember the pilots from the Balkans war and from the 1991 gulf war talk about stuff and they never went up with more than a GBU or JDAM and one Maverick and maybe some rockets and full guns and full gas. The idea was to loiter and be ready to hit bad guys fast and not be burdened with a lot of excess weight. So yeah, you can be a bomb truck but it's not practical and makes your maneuverability suck IRL.

Need more manouverable A-10C in combat ? Load it up with 50% fuel (trust me most of the time its enough), 2 Mavs and 4 GBU. There you have your maneuver, you can even try to dogfight the Flanker :D

<sarcasm>

I feel that I should be able to roll in on a target and have my pipper smack dead center on it after rolling wings level, like can be seen in RL videos. It's too bad really that legal reasons prevented ED from modelling the plane in a way that this is possible.

</sarcasm>

But seriously. The debate about the A-10's performance has come up so often on this forum, and every single time someone actually compared DCS to documented RL performance, it was within single digit percentage of deviation, and typically performed as it should down to a few knots, degrees, feet, or whatever measurement was used.

I find it completely amazing how the handling characteristics of the DCS jet provide feedback about the weight of the aircraft. As long as it's flown like its RL counterpart, I believe it also behaves that way.

With rule 1.16, it's certainly not easy to point out in public how the aircraft differs from RL documentation, but as long as people go by just a gut feeling, dunno, maybe there's something wrong with your gut instead?

I've been using it since a few months after early release (missed the free Nevada map, oops) and it's still my primary ride so I think that says something. Just wish that ED would fix the little bugs that have popped up recently.

Any plane that's not carrying cargo or passengers, no bombs and a half tank of fuel, will be fast and nimble. Burden it with max takeoff weight... why would you still expect it to be nimble? Load it with bricks, expect it to fly like a brick!

Same is true of cars, and a Formula1 car is especially light, go figure.

I fly MP servers where you need to be low and fast, go in and go out and the Hog can hold 270 knots easy with 4 mavs and 4 JDAM + half fuel.

Do you want more performance? drop the TER and go with 2 G MAVs and 4 JDAMs (or LGB up to you)

I never get right those steady turns and rolls without wobble the nose of the aircraft.

If the nose 'wobbles' you aren't controlling yaw/rudder correctly.

You are pulling to much on the stick. Aim for the specific G as the AFI 11-246 mentions and it will look just as in the video. My initial tendency was to pull back on the stick as far as it will go but that is to much. Just use the accelerometer or the steady stall warning horn whichever occurs first.

For example; the level 360° maneuver is not level, you only use 85° of bank and start gradually increasing G until reach 6g or steady tone. the first 180 should be with 1 and 3/4 degree nose up and the last 180 the same degrees down. See 6:48 in the video you posted. Note the pilots look like he is barely moving the stick

Thanks guys, I'm going to follow your adivice

Habu? Isn't that the mission creater? Operation Bactria?

Habu

Habu is the convenience store owner in The Simpsons

D'oh! So you're Homer?

Habu? Isn't that the mission creater? Operation Bactria?

No, I'm not the Habu that is the demo pilot LOL, but I do fly the Hawg and make Op. Bactria. And yes, the A-10 in the sim feels very sluggish and underpowered compared to IRL. I did respond in the engine performance thread. A few flights ago I noted down some engine performance parameters compared to airspeed to test in DCS. I have not been available to do the tests in DCS yet but I will let you all know what my findings are. I think possibly the biggest culprit is the drag index is FUBAR, especially when stores are equipped.

Regardless of the cause of the problem, from my expert opinion the DCS A-10C is confirmed sluggish.

Need more manouverable A-10C in combat ? Load it up with 50% fuel (trust me most of the time its enough), 2 Mavs and 4 GBU. There you have your maneuver, you can even try to dogfight the Flanker :D

Compared to other jets, the A-10 is a Prius! It doesn't have the speed and acceleration of a sports car, but it goes a long time between fill ups, and a little fuel goes a long way. :)

Are there any r/l Hawg pilots who feel the actual jet is overpowered?

Ehh that's not really the case though for the range bit, the 14,15,16, and 18 all out range the A10. And the 15E has similar loitering time, more payload, and is much faster.