MSFFB2 Mod build 2020

Just finished up my buildout of the msffb2 I've been dreaming of for a year now. I've been running a g940 for several years, and just couldn't do without ffb for this and other sims, but those Virpil grips were just too sexy to pass on so I decided to do some kitbashing and make my own...

Overview:

• msffb2 base - red version
  
• "resistor mod" for more ffb power!
  
• bodnar board for increase x and y axis precision
  
• virpil controller board and virpil t-50 cm2 grip (my favorite part)
  
• scratch built mounting solution - see images below for the "ring" and "socket" concept
  

While there is still plenty of room for improvement in the tidyness area, i am overall wildly impressed and pleased with how the mod turned out. The only thing I intend to do in future is perform the belt mod that another member of our forum has completed, see @LLv34_T_Vellu 's work for more details on this!

so here are some pics!

First up is the final product of course! Need to polish up the wire routing and put some finish on the mounts (also some toggle clamps instead of c-clamps, but that will wait lol):

this is a quick look at the 3d printed adapter used to mount the virpil stick to the stock base: (while i modeled my own, there is another gentleman that created one for his shapeways store, you can find this by searching for debolestis shapeways store)

In order for this grip to work, i had to acquire a virpil controller board which i'll leave to you to figure out;). Protips: if you have to make a wiring harness for one of these to be compatible with the five pin mini din, look for md-50j connector on digikey https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-devices/MD-50J/CP-2150-ND/96926 and assure that you have 2mm JST four pin connectors on hand!.

now for my original work, the mounting solution!

This is an image of the 3d printed "ring" base, which features some heat set threaded M4 inserts, and is glued to the base of the joystick. If you go this way, make sure to use a toughed CA glue (i used ICS-2000) rough up the base and the printed ring then wash with denatured alcohol before applying it. Also make sure that you have the ring reasonably aligned to the screw holes in the base! The base image will explain this further. Also included here is a bonus shot of the mount i use for my throttle (g940 for now, but soon to be replaced with a virpil unit;) I went this way due to not being able to have any screws coming through the base, its just too tight inside the stick with the two additional controller boards and the associated wiring. This also allows me to still be able to easily access the internals.

This is the "socket" base of the mount, which accepts the "ring" and you are able to run your m4 bolts through to secure it. It started life as a 3/4" thick piece of oak, which was then routed (started on my cnc router but it decided to shit on me before the job was finished, which is why the outer ring isnt nicely machined). If you want more specifics just ask!

For the most part, here we are! let me know if you have any questions for me on this, or indeed any suggestions!

Wow, nice build!!

<yea, I would have thought that MS or someone else might have tried bringing FFB stick to market in time for this newfangled boy on the block, whutzit called? MSBFST 2002 or whatever? Eh, I don't understand retail market sometimes...

Thrustmaster ought to have a go at this. And CH too.

Wow, nice build!!

 

<yea, I would have thought that MS or someone else might have tried bringing FFB stick to market in time for this newfangled boy on the block, whutzit called? MSBFST 2002 or whatever? Eh, I don't understand retail market sometimes...

 

Thrustmaster ought to have a go at this. And CH too.

If you mean the MSFF II that's exactly what this stick is. Sadly it was the best attempt at commercial FB for the masses but luckily it used a discrete power supply and a good h bridge circuit manipulating current.

This is why it's possible to do mods like the op.. change the resistance value in the current sensing circuit and you can get up to 400% the stock torque. OP's conversion is the simple version where you just add a few resistors and get 200% the torque, though if he kept the original psu it's not achieving full power. If you add even more resistors and add some caps and diodes and change the mosfets you can get 400% and power motors the size of coke cans.

A modded MSFF II is still the best FF option for normal sims. CH also made one around the same time as MS but it was outperformed by the Sidewinders, as was the G940 and Wingman. The $1500 Brunner is nice but practically a paperweight because it doesn't process DirectInput (standard FF output for flight sims), though Microsoft inexplicably don't support it on FS2020 or else I'd have already made my yoke with big motors/belt drive.

If the FS Force project to bring it to FS2020 https://www.fs-force.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1468 is successful (looks like it might be working now?) than I'll proceed with my yoke and already have a modded MSFF II (200% power, new psu/gimbals/shaft/grip) for gliding though that's used with Condor.

Wow ! Fantastic job !!! I have 3 of them msff2 sticks from the old days. I have always love them. I started DCS in March this year with one of them and was surprised that DCS welcomed it. It’s a great stick !!!! Awesome job and superb creativity.

Very well done!!

Thank you all for your attention on this one guys, sure appreciate it!

if any of you want to take on a project like this one, let me know and i'll do all i can to help you along the way!

Thank you all for your attention on this one guys, sure appreciate it!

 

 

 

if any of you want to take on a project like this one, let me know and i'll do all i can to help you along the way!

hey Dirt, great job!

I'm just about ready to do the same thing you've done here; I have the MSFFB2, the Virpil T-50 CM2, Debolitis' shapeways adapters.

-I still need the 5-pin wire, and I want to do the resistor mod.

Does the resistor mod require a better power supply?

Also now I think I'm going to go with one of Leo's boards... Is that fairly simple or does it require a ton of soldering? (I'm pretty handy with an iron, but any feedback you have would be appreciated!)

I doubt Bodnar boards can read out shift registers and the T50 grip runs on shift regs doesn't it? I'd rather go with MMjoy or FreeJoy, as they both can read 4021 shift registers.

hey Dirt, great job!

 

I'm just about ready to do the same thing you've done here; I have the MSFFB2, the Virpil T-50 CM2, Debolitis' shapeways adapters.

-I still need the 5-pin wire, and I want to do the resistor mod.

 

Does the resistor mod require a better power supply?

 

Also now I think I'm going to go with one of Leo's boards... Is that fairly simple or does it require a ton of soldering? (I'm pretty handy with an iron, but any feedback you have would be appreciated!)

You can do the mod without it but it will not be able to develop the full power potential using the stock psu. Stock one barely supplies more than than the standard current sensing circuit allows, which is like .7a per motor.

This mod pushes that up to 1.4a per motor though, well above the stock psu output. Luckily it super easy to change though because it uses a discrete psu. Mine has a 24v/3a psu in the form of a cheap power brick. https://imgur.com/a/4PHsM3V

Here's a link to Roland van Roy's site that got this mod started in the first place, he explains it a lot better than me. http://simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

"Note on DC supply: The original AC/DC 24V supply is quite weak, it cannot deliver much more than the power for original drive. So for higher motor currents, you have to use a 24V supply that can deliver more current."

Hey guys checking in here!

for the Virpil grip i'd really recommend hitting up the diy section of the virpil forum and see if you can source a virpil base controller board. otherwise you're going to have to do some analysis that i cant help you with, and employ a freejoy board...

Thanks for chiming in Thadiun, you are deffo SME status on this particular stick! your tip on the powersupply is clutch - do you think that there is a need for more than 3a for overhead? also did you test before and after changing the supply?

Hey guys checking in here!

 

 

for the Virpil grip i'd really recommend hitting up the diy section of the virpil forum and see if you can source a virpil base controller board. otherwise you're going to have to do some analysis that i cant help you with, and employ a freejoy board...

 

 

Thanks for chiming in Thadiun, you are deffo SME status on this particular stick! your tip on the powersupply is clutch - do you think that there is a need for more than 3a for overhead? also did you test before and after changing the supply?

Heh thanks, and no problem. For this mod which doubles the current (adding 1 resistor on top of the old ones) a 3a psu is more than sufficient since 2.8a is the max combined draw. I have tested it both with the stock one and the bigger one and while there is a difference it's not night and day in use but it's easily noticed on the bench.

With the stock unit, if you only hold 1 axis off center against the force there is basically enough juice to run it but if you hold both axes off center at the same time the total force developed is noticeably stronger with the bigger psu. I forgot exactly but the stock motors at 1.4a are like .8nm iirc. In use it's unlikely you're holding both axes off center but more power leaves more headroom for effects as well as reversals, especially important the heavier the grip and longer the shaft is. I kept mine super light for this reason, with a carbon stick and printed grip.

I also have a 7a brick that will be used for the 'big boy' version I'm working on.. it uses motors the size of redbull cans (Pittman 14203) that will utilize the full capacity of the full mod (400% current, 2.8a/motor) and be belt driven but use the same form factor gimbals as my current version. It comes out to around 3.5nm. I have the parts but end up simracing/tinkering on my racing setup more than flying these days so it's backburnered. The motors have skewed armatures and are engineered for low cogging though and are the perfect voltage/resistance for this mod.

I actually have 2 pairs of the motors and if there is definitive progress on using MSFF II in MS2020 I'll use them to build a FF yoke. Still waiting to see how it pans out with FS Force but it's likely they figure it out but I digress...