will the 109 please

Not sure how much can be gleaned from this from a devs perspective, it is after all anecdotal albeit from a experienced pilot.

Main thing is its an E-1 account, a far cry off a K4.

There were significant changes/improvements made along the way in almost every respect (powerplants, aerodynamics, wings, weapons,etc) and it seems that the K4, from what I have read was born out of a necessity in an attempt to rationalize all the other variants flying at the time into one, to reduce the cost of maintenance across the board.

Not sure how much can be gleaned from this from a devs perspective, it is after all anecdotal albeit from a experienced pilot.

Main thing is its an E-1 account, a far cry off a K4.

 

There were significant changes/improvements made along the way in almost every respect (powerplants, aerodynamics, wings, weapons,etc) and it seems that the K4, from what I have read was born out of a necessity in an attempt to rationalize all the other variants flying at the time into one, to reduce the cost of maintenance across the board.

E-1 I thought it was this E-4(E-3 conversion ?)...still not a K though

[YOUTUBE]watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BzUUlO6ihwE[/YOUTUBE]

Not sure how much can be gleaned from this from a devs perspective, it is after all anecdotal albeit from a experienced pilot.

Main thing is its an E-1 account, a far cry off a K4.

 

Yep, E and K are totally different planes, actually there may not be a single interchangeable parts between them :)

There's huge difference between weight and power too, E is about 2500kg/1100hp, K about 3300kg/1800hp (1.75 ata).

 

If there is no flyable K versions available, then they have to default to the next best thing. The G should be close, and there are flyable Gs about.

Of course, i just meant that particular article about E model is not probably too helpful to devs even it's good read.

Mark Hanna is talking about G2 and G10 in the other article so that should be pretty close K.

Well in Europe anyway the 2 in Germany are actually Spanish built Buchons refitted with DB605 engines

The ones in the UK are modern spec buchons.

In fact there is only one G airworthy, a G-14 in the USA, as well as a single E model in the states and one in Canada (the USA one is up for sale as well :D )

Pman

Well in Europe anyway the 2 in Germany are actually Spanish built Buchons refitted with DB605 engines

 

The ones in the UK are modern spec buchons.

 

In fact there is only one G airworthy, a G-14 in the USA, as well as a single E model in the states and one in Canada (the USA one is up for sale as well :D )

 

Pman

Yes they are Ex-buchons (EADS/Flugmuseum Messerschmitt ones, G4/G6/G10), but it doesen't matter as they are pretty much identical (in important areas anyway) to original Bf 109's now.

There's two more DB 605 powered ones coming in europe, both should be airworthy in 2014. Ex-Buchon and re-production Bf 109.

What G14 do you mean? I know there's two original (to some point) G10's in USA and other should be airworthy but they won't fly it.

Yes they are Ex-buchons (EADS/Flugmuseum Messerschmitt ones, G4/G6/G10), but it doesen't matter as they are pretty much identical (in important areas anyway) to original Bf 109's now.

There's two more DB 605 powered ones coming in europe, both should be airworthy in 2014. Ex-Buchon and re-production Bf 109.

 

What G14 do you mean? I know there's two original (to some point) G10's in USA and other should be airworthy but they won't fly it.

This one

Although commonly listed as a G10 I believe judging by its Werke number it is actually a G14 although it started life as a G6.

Even this one though doesnt have the original wings and they are repo's

Pman

The E in the US is up for sale? Is this the one from here: http://www.flyingheritage.com/

Beg Pardon its the Canada one

http://www.platinumfighters.com/#!bf-109e/c7r0

My sources have said that it has been up for sale for quite some time but for paperwork issues its unlikely to get permit to fly in the UK

Pman

ok, good, I quite like going down to visit the E from time to time :)

Apologises for scaring you :D

:pilotfly:

This one

 

Although commonly listed as a G10 I believe judging by its Werke number it is actually a G14 although it started life as a G6.

 

Even this one though doesnt have the original wings and they are repo's

 

Pman

Yep, that's the one i was thinking. It's converted to G10 at 1944 so G10 it is :D

Shame about half baked restoration with fantasy colours etc...

E-1 I thought it was this E-4(E-3 conversion ?)...still not a K though

 

Sorry you are quite correct.

I think this is more an E-3 than E-4 (or an incomplete 4?), and the only reason I say this is he does mention the auto prop switch which was hard wired to manual.

E-3's were manual whilst E-4's had the autoprop function.

I would have thought automated propeller speed control essential for an aeroplane with a 400 knot speed range. Indeed, such systems were fitted to later Bf-109 variants. I noticed that this particular aeroplane incorporated a small electrical switch on the floor, marked “Prop: Auto/Manual”, but it was wired to the Manual position. I was later told that this aeroplane never flew operationally with the system operative.

Sorry you are quite correct.

 

I think this is more an E-3 than E-4 (or an incomplete 4?), and the only reason I say this is he does mention the auto prop switch which was hard wired to manual.

E-3's were manual whilst E-4's had the autoprop function.

yes that makes sence

The HA-1112-M1L has no a "true" bf-109s, has Bf-109G-2, but with a RR Merlin engine engine vs Daimler-Benz DB 605A and others mods

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano_Aviación_HA-1112

Hey guys, I asked Yo-Yo about this and he gave me this list of aircraft that fly out of Duxford:

 

Airworthy

HA-1112-M1L c/n 67 C.4K-31 (G-AWHE), movie: Battle of Britain "Red 8", Yellow 14 , Spitfire Ltd, Jersey.[66][67][68]

HA-1112-M1L c/n 144 C.4K-162

HA-1112-M1L c/n 223 C.4K-102 (G-BWUE), movie: Battle of Britain "Red 7", Red 1 ,

Historic Flying Ltd, Duxford, Cambridgeshire.[69]

Just a small correction

G-AWHE Is owned by Richard Lake and is not a resident of duxford, it Lives at Humberside along with his MkXVI Spitfire

That leaves the Arco Buchon that is a permanent resident. Well airworthy one anyway, flown primarily by John Romain (as you can tell when you have a gander in the cockpit hehehehe)

I would have thought John would give some valuable feedback, whenever I have spoken to him he has been a very nice guy. I'll collar him next time I see him and ask.

Pman

I recall one contemporary pilot saying that the Buchon was more different from a real 109 than he had expected...The Buchon is noisier in the cockpit and has more parasite drag.

Noise is the single biggest difference I believe, many pilots reported an overall similarity in performance, I can believe it, how much difference can it be when you just replace one big V12 with another of similar power and weight.

The discussion was somewhere in this 80 minute(!) video. IIRC, the Duxford pilot said that dive acceleration was slower in the Buchon than in a real Bf 109. Watch the video and correct me if I'm wrong.:)

No you are correct, he does say it, as you said there is probably a drag issue, the big domed spinner o late model 109's makes for a nice streamlined shape, but I only said there is an 'overall' similarity, much like one model of 109 was probably faster than another but overall similar, certainly the handling qualities must be largely the same.