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Old 06-27-2017, 01:30 PM   #21
Vitormouraa
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:45 PM   #22
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Without the P-38, the Allies would have surely lost the war;
The land war in the East too? Surely it was a mighty machine, but please
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:39 PM   #23
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The land war in the East too? Surely it was a mighty machine, but please
yes seeing how marshal zhukov himself said if it weren't for american supplies the ussr would have fallen seeing how it enabled them to focus on vital tank and plane production, since they didn't have America's industrial capacity.
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:29 AM   #24
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yes seeing how marshal zhukov himself said if it weren't for american supplies the ussr would have fallen seeing how it enabled them to focus on vital tank and plane production, since they didn't have America's industrial capacity.
People seem to forget that without American Industry the war could have been much longer, or it may have even gone a different way.

Russia and America deserve much of the credit for bringing the war to and end imo, but so do all the other countries, the war was a joint effort so no one country deserves all the credit.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:25 PM   #25
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...America's industrial capacity.
And where did I dispute that?
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:31 PM   #26
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the war was a joint effort so no one country deserves all the credit.
Exactly. But since we're getting into the "my fave plane w0N t3H w4R" thing, I up the stakes and claim that the IL-2 won the war
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:40 PM   #27
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no, credit is due to the relative inferiority of japanese designs. bong was a poor shot who made his kills pointblank and his luck wouldnt have held against the faster and properly armored aircraft of the eto.
Bong considered himself a poor shot; nobody who served with him is known to have agreed with him on that score. Those who served against him rarely had the time to form an opinion.

He was just a humble guy (and a perfectionist; he thought he should make every shot). Japanese fighter aircraft designers consciously sacrificed speed and armor for acceleration and agility; they were notoriously 'active' targets, and it was rare to be able to sneak up on one and hit him 'pointblank' (their bombers were another story). To take out a Zero or Oscar before 1944, you most often had to use deflection and hit the front half of the aircraft (where the engine, pilot and fuel was). 'Snap' shooting was the norm in that theater, especially in the first two years of the Pacific war.

The P-38 was unusual among American fighters in that all its armament was nose mounted; 1x20mm cannon and 4x.50" machine guns packed close together, so it could hit you very hard in a very short burst at long or short range and convergence was not as critical a factor for aiming. German and Italian pilots in the Med were very wary of entering that cone of fire regardless of what they thought of the P-38's other qualities.

The P-38 was a pre-radar design, so it was designed to have excellent acceleration and climb at all altitudes due to its turbosuperchargers; it could be argued that when the United States entered the war, the P-38 was the most advanced fighter in the world--unfortunately, it was still essentially an immature design and Lockheed and the Army Air Force handled its development and manufacture very poorly, resulting in flaws that persisted throughout its wartime career (poor cockpit heating, horrendous control and instrument ergonomics, key electrical and engine components lacking redundancy or protection, among other faults). Good maintenance was unquestionably a factor for units in the ETO, but early units in the Med and the Pacific were veteran Lightning groups with good maintenance support and prewar experienced pilots who got a lot of 'spoon feeding' from Lockheed before they went overseas, unlike the 55th & 20th FGs, who came to Britain in '43 and were given support units already in theater.

Compressability was a factor at high altitudes, and there were reports that it could go into compressability in level flight at extreme high alts, but it was not a factor until you were around 24,000 ft and non-existent below 20,000 ft. Finally, it was never available in the desired (or needed) numbers until the Mustang and Thunderbolt had already matched or exceeded its capabilities (and they were always available in greater numbers--and cheaper).

Even so, it had tremendous range, great hitting power, excellent vertical maneuverability, a shockingly good sustained turning circle (poor roll though), and in the hands of a good pilot familiar with its quirks was a deadly opponent in any theater of the war. Oh, and that is the other thing--it took two or three times as long to master the P-38 as a Spitfire, Mustang or Thunderbolt. It was easy to fly, but it was hard to get everything out of it without a lot of flying hours in type, according to every authoritative source.

Hope this helps clarify the picture.

cheers

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Old 06-29-2017, 12:07 AM   #28
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Twin engine management would be an interesting advance in DCS prop aircraft.
Might lead to a flyable B17 who knows ?

Would be an instant buy for me. Love the P-38.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:22 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by msalama View Post
And where did I dispute that?
well you brought up the land war in the east ;p, not sure if you meant the allies taking on japan or the russians taking on the ussr, so i went with the latter stating that there would be no land war in the east if it wasn't for america's economy.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:00 PM   #30
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I think that the P-47 was far more successful in ending the war,
especially in France and Germany

Last edited by SlipBall; 06-29-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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