[CLOSED] K-4 module completely stops rolling at high speeds - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-11-2016, 08:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAD-MM View Post
big influence by the PC Hardware you use.
This and server lag seems to affect the stick forces as well. They appear to be much more pronounced around 300km/h when the server starts lagging. Notice this a lot on the ACG server unfortunately.
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:23 AM   #12
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Why does it start to roll to the right in the first place? Even with power off etc?
Profile on rudder being the reason perhaps?
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:47 AM   #13
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I think you reach the effects of air Compressibility, don't know this ever researched on the 109 like RAF did after the War with the Spit. Don't know how this affect the 109 Airframe and the Ailerons, Me-163 had near sound barrier strong pitch down movement should be happy 109 is only starting rolling
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Why does it start to roll to the right in the first place? Even with power off etc?
Profile on rudder being the reason perhaps?
That's where I'd put my money. You can test for it in the DCS version: if the rudder is responsible the instruments should show a large amount of side slip when the uncontrollable roll appears.

Otherwise perhaps some detail asymmetry in the airframe might be responsible- what if, for example, Messerschmidt's wing jigs were slightly off-spec (though still within acceptable tolerances) and as a result the factory consistently produced wings with a slight twist in them?
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:13 PM   #15
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rudder is not right, In my long held opinion of it
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:33 PM   #16
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anyway, would be a good place to look, and possible eliminate as the culprit
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:33 PM   #17
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Ailerons completely stop working above some speed in DCS. Kurfürst already has a Bug report open with quotes from the DVL report. (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174867) I hope this gets fixed rather sooner than later. Even at Mach 0.8 the ailerons were effective in the high speed trials of 109 F with G wings. That was also around the Mach speed when compressibility caused artifacts in aileron control. Max speed reached was Mach .81 (at 4,5 km altitude).

In the same report with the "new" larger rudder (= K-4 rudder minus flettner tab) the pilot was able to compensate the yawing forces in all high speed dives up to the tested max Mach of .81. Even with the small "old" rudder only above 800 kph yaw forces could not be compensated. In DCS it is starting at about 700 kph with the "new" rudder and flettner tabs. This cant be right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurfürst View Post
Why does it start to roll to the right in the first place? Even with power off etc?
Profile on rudder being the reason perhaps?
With increasing speed the "wing" shaped rudder produces more "lift" to the left, so that seems to be the answer. I am guessing "pilot strength" is the problem here in DCS, as the test pilot didnt seem to have a problem compensating the yaw.

I wrote a report in July (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170388), but nothing has happened so far. I guess ED is busy with the Spit release. Hopefully afterwards some corrections will quickly find its way into the sim. But I think even while taxiing the rudder seems to lack authority. When I have RPM at 2600 and the rudder still has no effect I am always a bit confused.

Last edited by rel4y; 12-11-2016 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:41 PM   #18
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^^i think, that this is also due to the stick forces which are probably too pronounced right now? our pilot is not able to pull full deflection on the controls on any of the flight surfaces at speeds of well below 300kph.
but yes, i agree, rudder and its effects are also in my opinion for the lack of a better word questionable. for example, you can hardly get the 109 into a proper sideslip, and i can hardly de-crab the aircraft at crosswinds even with full rudder...it will just roll into that direction, but hardly yaw.

Last edited by 9./JG27 DavidRed; 12-11-2016 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:07 AM   #19
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I don't know how it is now, but from what I read, the 109 should be pleasant before 400kph, getting progressively stiffer and at 550 the pilot is not able to move the stick with one hand and needs two and considerable force. While at 700kph the force needed would be too much for an average man to move the ailerons but elevator would be operational but barely.

Conclusion is that, bellow 400kph stick should be easy to move around and deflect, at 400 and above person if doing it one handed would be able to move the stick but with more stenght with each kph gained. He would be able to deflect it fully, but slower due to overcoming the rising stick forces. G would also affect him as it has a great effect on a person.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:26 AM   #20
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I believe it's pretty much like that in as far as aileron goes, but we can still use rudder well above 750 kph IAS, and the elevator is also effective at higher speeds without the need for stabilator, unless you're really close to the ground...
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