Can't snap roll a BF-109? - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-11-2016, 05:22 PM   #1
WelshZeCorgi
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Default Can't snap roll a BF-109?

I can snap roll the FW-190 and P-51, but can't seem to do it in the BF-109 because of the leading slats? Is there a special way to snap roll the BF-109 or is it just not possible?
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:25 PM   #2
LURKINGBADGER
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Yes i tried it to, to me it looks/feels like the ruder does not have the authority to do that, i notice it when i do landings with crosswinds with the 109 compared against the 51d.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:43 PM   #3
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I have been saying for a long time now that the rudder lacks authority both on the ground and in the air...I have shown this visual evidence before, just look at that turn prior to touch down, and the pilots use of the rudder both on the ground and up in the air.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzUUlO6ihwE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzUUlO6ihwE[/ame]
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Old 08-13-2016, 06:42 PM   #4
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Last time I checked snap rolls were performed by a quick stick flick leading into a sudden stall, only marginally aid by rudder. You sure you are looking for it correctly?

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Old 08-13-2016, 07:19 PM   #5
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A snap roll is achieved by stalling out 1 wing before the other. At no time are ailerons utilized in a proper snap roll.

At an appropriate speed for the a/c, pull back on the stick, then input rudder into the desired direction of the roll. The induced yaw will have the advancing wing generating significantly more lift and the other wing will stall out. The miss match in lift will roll the a/c around, no ailerons required. To stop the snap roll, neutralize the pull and a bit of opposite rudder initially. The trick is in the timing to stop the a/c at the desired attitude.

Here, Kirby Chambliss describes the manuever, a bit over dramatic IMHO, but the results are the same.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adve...a-stunt-plane/
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Old 08-13-2016, 07:39 PM   #6
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You do not snap roll a Bf-109, the Bf-109 takes you out for a snap roll when she so decides.
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Old 08-14-2016, 04:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShoes View Post
You do not snap roll a Bf-109, the Bf-109 takes you out for a snap roll when she so decides.
Are you the same person as in the RCGroups? I was just reading about the XK A600 over at the RCGroups forum
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Old 08-14-2016, 09:34 PM   #8
Ala13_ManOWar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahdoh View Post
A snap roll is achieved by stalling out 1 wing before the other. At no time are ailerons utilized in a proper snap roll.
Did I say it is a roll flick? ;-) Anyway, opposite roll while stepping rudder and holding stick back helps the snap roll. But yes, no need for it.

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Old 08-15-2016, 06:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahdoh View Post
A snap roll is achieved by stalling out 1 wing before the other. At no time are ailerons utilized in a proper snap roll.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adve...a-stunt-plane/
It would be highly dependant on type of aircraft i would guess. All books i've looked at for description of aerobatic manouvers for gliding suggest use of aileron when doing a snap-roll.

like this
To anyone who doesn't get why you would roll opposite to the way you want to snap, here is why

If you roll away from the flick, the aileron goes down on the side it will flick making the AoA on that wing greater, and create more drag(Fig D). Neutral means same AoAand drag on both wings, and if you would roll into the direction you want to snap you would be giving the wing a lesser AoA, thus also less drag(Fig B)

(Extreme edits: Snap rolls are not done exactly like this for all airplanes. It is very aircraft dependant as to what control inputs you need to make. You just want the plane to rotate fast, stall out (autorotation, really). How you get it doesn't matter that much, it's the result of it that matters.)

Last edited by Farlander; 08-16-2016 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:07 PM   #10
WelshZeCorgi
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Still can't do it, tried both suggestions but the slats on the stalling wing keep deploying and catching the stalling wing before a full snap roll is accomplished.

Can anyone post a video of a successful snap roll in the Bf-109 in DCS? There are none on Google.
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