Me109 updates in latest patch.

I was watching random DCS videos today and I saw one in which the 109 had both wings destroyed and yet flew back home for around 5min and crashlanded it on the field...

Maybe someone who actually has it can do some testing? Seems like either the DM or 109 wings give too much lift...? I am nearly certain that this behaviour should not be there.

Video link:

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Same thing happens in P-51 (I'd presume basic DM and its influence on FM is similar for both planes). Until we get a new DM... nothing new to see here, move along :D.

I was watching random DCS videos today and I saw one in which the 109 had both wings destroyed and yet flew back home for around 5min and crashlanded it on the field...

 

Maybe someone who actually has it can do some testing? Seems like either the DM or 109 wings give too much lift...? I am nearly certain that this behaviour should not be there.

 

Video link:

This is nothing new.I could do this in very early versions .Even with no wings at all i remember it still had some little forward motion. Now it's impossible for me to brake the wings because pilot blacks out first and there's a big delay in the controls so no sudden g pull is possible.

I have to say, I have never lost both of my wings in combat in the P-51D, so I can't say if it is present there. I have to say though, that my eyes flew out of sockets when I saw it :P.

I hope it is just that DM is not providing the proper feedback to the FM which creates this wierd behaviour. Because if it is something inherently bad with FM's and physics engine, that might be problematic to track and fix.

Mustang's wings are indeed more difficult to snap unless You're pulling up hard from some downright stupidly fast dive, but it can be done.

I'm a bit surprised by the vid, though. I thought snapping them in 109 was impossible after stiffening of elevator at speed was finally implemented. I admit I don't use this plane much, though, and only do some leasure grandma-style flying with it.

Remember that there are real cases of airplanes still flying home with parts of their wings missing. I guess it all depends on what AOA the snap happens and how much speed the plane has left after the snap. The inside portion of the wing still creates lift, just not alot and nowhere near the stability a full wing gives.

I don't know how breaking off two wing parts (like in the vid) would behave though (I know of no real case where such a thing happened). I guess the drag alone would be enormous? I'm not saying that the behaviour in the vid is correct, just that missing a portion of a wing doesn't automatically mean "OMG, it's gotta crash":P

Have to try and recreate (as stated I havent busted any wings myself lately), but I cant imagine that is correct, not to mention what pilot would have stuck around while basically flying a ball of flames :)

Pilot? Probably none. DCS player? Nearly every single one :P

2.03 changes seem to be:

1) FM tweaks... Seems much more believable now as far as the how the ground behavior is... Not too simple but not ridiculously sensitive... Its like all the rough edges have been polished off leaving the 109 characteristics intact but fixing the transition to/from flight with the smoothness of the flight model...

2) Track playback seems to work. Yay!

3) Cold and dark is functional. Yay!

4) Track IR views during flyby, etc... Will take some getting used to but I think it's ok... Track IR can always be paused...

5) WWII AI more accurate... I'm not sure what has changed here... Wondering what is more accurate.

The "bounciness" of the wheels on the 109 feels attenuated a bit (which is much better)... like it has more weight/intertia and that if it's near the stall speed and a few inches off the runway, it's not going to magically bounce 2 feet in the air, when it "drops" to the runway...

The left wing snap stall when the critical AoA was exceeded has been toned down... As of now, it appears to be a step in the right direction... If you stay within the flight envelope, the plane "behaves"... I haven't done enough flying to know whether the way it now feels is simply due to adjusting the amount of output relative to the amount of input to the stick... It used to feel that very small changes in stick deflection lead to disproportionally large changes in the aircrafts attitude in some flight regimes...

Anyone else that's flying Nevada only have any comments on the flight model and other tweaks in 2.03?

Kurfürst behaviour on ground in 2.0.3 is definitely different from 1.5.4

IMHO to good way.

Just tried taking off the 109 in 2.0.3. Definitely different than 1.5.x.

Note: in both, I made sure I have take-off assistance etc. off.

In 1.5.x, procedure for me is:

(1) Start with full right rudder, stick full right and half back

(2) Slowly increase throttle, relaxing rudder as she begins to veer left as speed increases, then push stick forward a little, then pull up gently. Watch for wing dipping (caused by stall; push forward stick to reduce rate of climb).

In 2.0.3, above does not work. I have to:

(1) Start with full right rudder, stick full right and half back

(2) FULL throttle forward, using brakes to center during early roll.

(3) Speed increases rapidly and she starts to bounce: pull stick up gently. Watch for wing drop (as above, caused by stall)

Just tried taking off the 109 in 2.0.3. Definitely different than 1.5.x.

 

Note: in both, I made sure I have take-off assistance etc. off.

 

In 1.5.x, procedure for me is:

 

(1) Start with full right rudder, stick full right and half back

(2) Slowly increase throttle, relaxing rudder as she begins to veer left as speed increases, then push stick forward a little, then pull up gently. Watch for wing dipping (caused by stall; push forward stick to reduce rate of climb).

 

In 2.0.3, above does not work. I have to:

 

(1) Start with full right rudder, stick full right and half back

(2) FULL throttle forward, using brakes to center during early roll.

(3) Speed increases rapidly and she starts to bounce: pull stick up gently. Watch for wing drop (as above, caused by stall)

The only thing that comes to my mind is that in 2.0.3 you're flying in Nevada, right ? The altitudes, and temperature, and hence density in Nevada airfields, as opposed to most of the airfields in the Caucasus map ( almost at sea level ), can play a major role in takeoff performance...

I think that the aircraft is a bit too touche both take-off and landing...I don't believe the real thing is as...as our's is here in game play

Is there anything new on the missing stick shake (FFB) since the last update?

Just tried taking off the 109 in 2.0.3. Definitely different than 1.5.x.

 

Note: in both, I made sure I have take-off assistance etc. off.

 

In 1.5.x, procedure for me is:

 

(1) Start with full right rudder, stick full right and half back

(2) Slowly increase throttle, relaxing rudder as she begins to veer left as speed increases, then push stick forward a little, then pull up gently. Watch for wing dipping (caused by stall; push forward stick to reduce rate of climb).

 

In 2.0.3, above does not work. I have to:

 

(1) Start with full right rudder, stick full right and half back

(2) FULL throttle forward, using brakes to center during early roll.

(3) Speed increases rapidly and she starts to bounce: pull stick up gently. Watch for wing drop (as above, caused by stall)

Stick right is procedure for the Dora, and that's only to counter the fact it climbs so fast it'll stall the left wing if you keep the stick back.

I've never needed right stick to take off the 109, but I've always also pushed to the throttle to near full (~1.3 ATA) before releasing the brakes.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that in 2.0.3 you're flying in Nevada, right ? The altitudes, and temperature, and hence density in Nevada airfields, as opposed to most of the airfields in the Caucasus map ( almost at sea level ), can play a major role in takeoff performance...

Maybe that's it ... not sure.

I also think she handles different up in the air, e.g. at 15000 ft AGL. I find it easier in 2.0.3 than I did in 1.5.x. Especially in heavy (expensive) maneuvering --- seems easier to throw her around the sky without stalling.

Stick right is procedure for the Dora, and that's only to counter the fact it climbs so fast it'll stall the left wing if you keep the stick back.

 

I've never needed right stick to take off the 109, but I've always also pushed to the throttle to near full (~1.3 ATA) before releasing the brakes.

In 1.5.x, at least, no need for throttling up under brakes: I just need to ease up the throttle to start her rolling down the runway, with full rudder right and stick back and right, and continuously slowly easing up the throttle until she lifts off by herself very quickly, very smoothly. I do not know the exact number, but I don't think I ever get close to full throttle before she gets up? This bird *wants* to fly! I only go full throttle when I am fully airborne and cleaned up and want to climb.

I'll try without the right stick later tonight ...

Maybe that's it ... not sure.

 

I also think she handles different up in the air, e.g. at 15000 ft AGL. I find it easier in 2.0.3 than I did in 1.5.x. Especially in heavy (expensive) maneuvering --- seems easier to throw her around the sky without stalling.

Of course, this could be all (or partially) be in my head. Only the developers will know if and what really changed ...

The take off run in 2.0.3 now feels like it did a few patches ago in 1.x.x - there was also a patch where it was necessary to use brakes during the TO run to keep her straight.

When it comes to flying she feels a bit strange imo - no buffeting / no wing drops ... you can pull on the stick like crazy and all you do is lose energy. Not sure if this is right - somehow she felt more believable to fly in the last patches.

Try the real thing and get back to us, I have a Ouija board if I need to communicate that way :)

 

Seriously though, I think the biggest difference is the sensation of movement and speed and our controls, much different feel than from the real thing I would imagine...

There is not a man rightfully here, everyone of us has died in a horrible take-off/landing accident... lol

jcomm is probably quite correct.

I don't know about anybody else but I find both Kurtfurst & Dora considerably harder to land at Groom.

When I go from Groom to Kobuletti or Batumi these birds seem so docile after Groom.

Almost like I'm flying in treacle ;o)