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Old 04-13-2016, 06:52 AM   #1151
klem
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Originally Posted by Nerd1000 View Post
At the risk of starting a big argument, the effectiveness of mineshells vs normal HEI rounds is debatable. They have much more explosive (and thus a lot more destructive energy) but the thin drawn body lacks mass to be thrown out as fragments. Shockwaves are generally poor energy carriers compared to fragments, as the shock will lose power much more quickly over distance and cannot penetrate objects like a fragment can, so it's up in the air as to which approach worked better in practice. IMO You'd need statistical data to make a proper judgment.

Also, doesn't the MG151 have a higher fire rate than the Hispano? from what I've read the MG151/20 fires 750rpm while the Hispano Mk II fires 600rpm. Obviously the synchronization would slow it down a bit, but Kurfurst has claimed on other forums that the Germans used an electrical synchronization system that allowed very small losses in rate of fire (and he certainly knows more than me about the specifics of WWII German gun installations).
Just give me a ruddy Spit IX and fly your 109/190 in front of me. Then we'll find out.
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Old 04-13-2016, 07:14 AM   #1152
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Originally Posted by klem View Post
Just give me a ruddy Spit IX and fly your 109/190 in front of me. Then we'll find out.
I prefer to fly planes that don't resemble swiss cheese, so no.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:26 PM   #1153
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Originally Posted by Nerd1000 View Post
At the risk of starting a big argument, the effectiveness of mineshells vs normal HEI rounds is debatable. They have much more explosive (and thus a lot more destructive energy) but the thin drawn body lacks mass to be thrown out as fragments. Shockwaves are generally poor energy carriers compared to fragments, as the shock will lose power much more quickly over distance and cannot penetrate objects like a fragment can, so it's up in the air as to which approach worked better in practice. IMO You'd need statistical data to make a proper judgment.
Mineshells have a delayed fuse what let it explode after it penetrated the surface it hit (even if just a bit).
Normal HE explodes on impact on the surface. The difference of the damage dealt can be easily portrayed by letting a firecracker explode on top of a price of snow or buried into it.
The result is much larger punctual damage (big ass hole) what is catastrophic on airplanes but rather pointless on soft targets, where the splash damage of standard HE is much more effective.
The effectiveness of the Mineshells is much more related to how and when it blows up and fragments don fly far around inside of a wing, so more chemical power is the better choice.

Besides, if the mineshells would be less effective than simpler HE designs from the time, why did other nation copy it, on for example the ADEN cannon?
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:09 PM   #1154
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Just give me a ruddy Spit IX and fly your 109/190 in front of me. Then we'll find out.
Haha +1
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:22 PM   #1155
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Nerd, the german did some testing before the war, and they found fragmentation ammunition did not enough damage to the newly introduced aluminium hull.
The mine ammunition was also with timing, they detonate when it was half in the aluminium hull, rely on the gas blast not fragmentation.
And chance of second shell follow in the hole of the hull was realy high because of M151 high firing rate and did massive dmg to the internal controls.

Last edited by MAD-MM; 04-13-2016 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:18 AM   #1156
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Originally Posted by DSR_T-800 View Post
P-47D-30 vs Current DCS fighters

http://m.imgur.com/Qo0se47
Quoted from the P-47 thread.... it just makes me wonder why they even bothered to even make a Spitfire Mk IX if they planned to give us a 1943 version, it will be eaten alive without the +25lb boost.

I really hope they realize the huge mistake they are making and give it the +25lb... are they doing it so as to not tread on the toes of the VEAO Spit XIV, I highly doubt it as that would be pathetic.

I just still for the life of me can't fathom out why they would give us a 1943 aircraft to fight late 1944/1945 aircraft, could someone PLEASE explain the reasoning behind this?
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:24 AM   #1157
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Originally Posted by Krupi View Post
Quoted from the P-47 thread.... it just makes me wonder why they even bothered to even make a Spitfire Mk IX if they planned to give us a 1943 version, it will be eaten alive without the +25lb boost.

I really hope they realize the huge mistake they are making and give it the +25lb... are they doing it so as to not tread on the toes of the VEAO Spit XIV, I highly doubt it as that which would be pathetic.

I just still for the life of me can't fathom out why they would give us a 1943 aircraft to fight late 1944/1945 aircraft, could someone PLEASE explain the reasoning behind this?

It is a going to be a problem for sure, they will have to fast track a new Spit I guess after the release of the relic
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:34 AM   #1158
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Is it to do with the 100 grade/150 grade fuel argument, if they give the spit +25 lb boost then they will be forced to give the P-51 a boost?

The only piece of official information I can find is this...

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Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
Mmm... the Spitfire at 18 lb has equal energy with 109K with MW50. Will you feel good as you know that at 25 lb you have superiority over your opponent?
Which lets be honest is not an answer... I don't see what energy has to do with ANYTHING here, all that matters is SPEED and historic data.

I am a 190 pilot and I cannot fathom out why we get the December 1944/1945 version of the Dora and the allies keep on getting cut short?
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Last edited by Krupi; 04-16-2016 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 12:22 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by Krupi View Post
I am a 190 pilot and I cannot fathom out why we get the December 1944/1945 version of the Dora and the allies keep on getting cut short?
Because it was already in development by ED before the Kickstarter by Ilya/RRG or even WW2 concept was a thing, but still fits the theme?

I feel like I have to keep mentioning this every few months.

Just like the P-51 and I doubt ED will cave into severely altering these planes just because someone feels it's not competetive (Which P-51 absolutely is, atleast against the Dora), historical references aside.

Of course, if you'd rather not have it...

99% of the people in this thread have not even flown the Spitfire yet, but somehow manage to badmouth it and say how much it is going to suck. And based on what, level top speed?

ED has mentioned before, development is based on the information they have available to them to provide the most authentic sim experience, and not what makes the most sense for online gameplay balance.

Plus, there's always Kickstarter to try and fund the development of G-14 and A-8 modules...
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Old 04-16-2016, 12:36 PM   #1160
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Because it was already in development by ED before the Kickstarter by Ilya/RRG or even WW2 concept was a thing, but still fits the theme?

I feel like I have to keep mentioning this every few months.

Just like the P-51 and I doubt ED will cave into severely altering these planes just because someone feels it's not competetive (Which P-51 absolutely is, atleast against the Dora), historical references aside.

Of course, if you'd rather not have it...

99% of the people in this thread have not even flown the Spitfire yet, but somehow manage to badmouth it and say how much it is going to suck. And based on what, level top speed?

ED has mentioned before, development is based on the information they have available to them to provide the most authentic sim experience, and not what makes the most sense for online gameplay balance.

Plus, there's always Kickstarter to try and fund the development of G-14 and A-8 modules...
Utter rubbish... Plans can and should change.

We are not even getting a 1944 Spitfire we are getting a 1943 version, no one in there right mind can justify that choice when ww are getting late versions of every other aircraft (it is not even an IXe!

Speed is survival, you know it so don't try and down play it.
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