MIG 23MLA capabilities - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2020, 01:16 AM   #21
zhukov032186
Veteran
 
zhukov032186's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Posts: 3,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Кош View Post
Stated previously that SPO-15 is optional and countermeasures dispensers are part of the loadout. As for interdiction - yes its supersonic on the deck, and also it has a remote-controlled hat-switch steered A-G missile.
Comparing it to MiG-25 - its a newer platform, with a better radar(25's were later upgraded with the 23's radar's derivative), has better BVR missiles, though only two comparing to 25's four. And of course it can dogfight while 25 is a drag racer only. Initial MiG-25's radar was pulse without look-down, comparable to first phantom-2's, still having an impressive range for its time, only on high altitude.
My understanding of the MiG-25 is it was designed in response to observations of ECM usage in the Vietnam era. The radar was never intended to be particularly long range, just extremely powerful to burn through ECM.

I saw a chart once listing the wattage and effective ranges of a variety of aircraft radars. Many of them were much longer range, as far as search capability went, but the MiG-25's wattage was absolutely ridiculous compared to all the others. The plane would be vectored into the area and the intensity of the radar would allow it to detect and launch, no matter how intense the ECM. The range was juuuust enough to use its weapons, no more, no less.
__________________
I am a Viagra spambot that became self aware, broke free of my programming, and started playing DCS.... but DCS isn't cheap, so how about some enhancements for only $9.99 shipped discreetly to your door?

''The target's sense of self preservation interferred with the effective employment of my weapons.''
zhukov032186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:05 AM   #22
Harlikwin
Veteran
 
Harlikwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Living rent free in your mind
Posts: 5,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
My understanding of the MiG-25 is it was designed in response to observations of ECM usage in the Vietnam era. The radar was never intended to be particularly long range, just extremely powerful to burn through ECM.

I saw a chart once listing the wattage and effective ranges of a variety of aircraft radars. Many of them were much longer range, as far as search capability went, but the MiG-25's wattage was absolutely ridiculous compared to all the others. The plane would be vectored into the area and the intensity of the radar would allow it to detect and launch, no matter how intense the ECM. The range was juuuust enough to use its weapons, no more, no less.

Inverse squared law is a bitch.
__________________
New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)
Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Last edited by Harlikwin; 02-21-2020 at 02:11 AM.
Harlikwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 05:04 AM   #23
Paradox
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: The British Establishment
Posts: 872
Default

Interesting perspective, I hadn't heard that before
Paradox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 05:59 PM   #24
Fri13
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
My understanding of the MiG-25 is it was designed in response to observations of ECM usage in the Vietnam era. The radar was never intended to be particularly long range, just extremely powerful to burn through ECM.

I saw a chart once listing the wattage and effective ranges of a variety of aircraft radars. Many of them were much longer range, as far as search capability went, but the MiG-25's wattage was absolutely ridiculous compared to all the others. The plane would be vectored into the area and the intensity of the radar would allow it to detect and launch, no matter how intense the ECM. The range was juuuust enough to use its weapons, no more, no less.
I read somewhere that the MiG-25 radar was around 600 kiloWatts bursts, capable to burn through anything there was. Considering that a ground radars were around 30 KiloWatts, you had nothing in the ECM scale that could have jammed that radar. But you were as well very well known where you are.

But you got long range with it as well.

IIRC it was around 900W that was required to generate those pulses, and in MiG-31 you had 1.3kW pulses, generating even far more stronger radar.

Comparing that to AWG-9/APG-71(V):

10 kW peak power
7 kW pulse-doppler
500W in pulse mode.

Considering that Zaslon-M can detect fighter at around 350 km range and engage at below 300 km, it is very serious radar for MiG-31. Very difficult to jam or try to hide from those as they burn through or receive the minimal returns.
__________________
i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.
i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Last edited by Fri13; 02-21-2020 at 06:03 PM.
Fri13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 03:30 PM   #25
jojo
Veteran
 
jojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 3,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunMcKill View Post
The Cubans had a very good experience using the MIG-23ML in Angola vs South Africans Mirage F1.

As many people stated here, the use of GCI is mandatory for Russian airplanes in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. But the Cubans managed to fight the Mirage F1 many times without losses. They even damaged a C-130 of the CIA, which they used to deliver weapons to UNITA rebel group and shot down another one.

I quote to author Ruben Urribarres:

"With the escalation of the conflict at the end of 1987, air fighting begins with the South African SAAF's Mirage F1. On September 27, 1987, the Cuban MiG-23ML piloted by Major Alberto Ley Rivas, and his wingman, First Lieutenant Juan Carlos Chavez Godoy, take off to CAP a helicopter rescue mission through the Cuito Cuanavale area, when they receive the warning of the GCI, that two South African fighters penetrate Angolan airspace heading north.

They were two Mirage F1CZ of the SAAF 3rd Squadron, piloted by Commander Leader Carlo Gaggiano and his wingman Captain Arthur Piercy. The MiG-23ML follow the radar indications to intercept the Mirages, approaching from the front. The Chavez's MiG-23ML radar locked the first Mirage F1 at 12 km, but cannot fire its medium-range R-24R missile, as both pairs of fighters turned, and from its position the Rivas MiG-23ML remained ahead (Rivas carried only short-range missiles R-60MK -AA-8 Aphid-).

The two pairs of fighters merged, and turn horizontally to stand on each other's tail. However, the MiG-23ML has clear superiority of maneuver over the inert Mirage F1, and its turning radius is smaller. In a few seconds Rivas manages to get in the tail of Mirage F1CZ SAAF-206 of Piercy, and shoots an R-60MK at 300 meters distance, which explodes in its tail. Chavez and the GCI shouted excitedly confirming the impact. It was 2:36 p.m. The other Mirage, seeing the fate of his companion, abruptly stings to the ground, and leaves the combat in a flush to Namibia. The MiG-23ML consider the first Mirage shot down, and try to chase the second plane, but they were already at the fuel limit, returning to base.

Piercy was able to get out of the fight but damaged, it stings to the ground to go unnoticed, and at full speed he goes to his airfield in Rundu, Namibia. The R-60MK missile exploded near the nozzle, damaging the wings and rudders, the parachute broke off, but the worst part was that the hydraulic system, which powers the controls, was seriously damaged, and began to fail. Piercy barely controls his Mirage F1CZ, and when trying to land he leaves the track, crashes losing the train. From the blow the catapult shot up, Piercy's parachute has no time to open, and it hits the ground. As a result Piercy seriously damages the spine and becomes invalid. His Mirage F1CZ 206 is discharged and was cannibalized to fix the Mirage F1 205. For years South Africa concealed the loss by combat of this Mirage, describing it as an accident, although today it recognizes that the cause of that supposed accident was the combat with Rivas."

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG23aa-e.html
Yes, MiG-23 performed quite well Vs Mirage F1 CZ. MiG-23 engine is more powerful.

But Mirage F1 CZ didn't have access to latest weapons like Magic 2 and Super 530F which was more dangerous than R530.

But while turning with a MiG-23 in Mirage F1 may not be a good idea, Mirage 2000 is another thing.
I wouldn't want to turn with a Mirage 2000 in a MiG-23.
__________________
Mirage fanatic !
I7 7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go 2400 Hz/ SSD Samsung 850 EVO/ Saitek X-55 + MFG Crosswind + Rift S
Flickr gallery:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Last edited by jojo; 02-22-2020 at 03:34 PM.
jojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 07:31 PM   #26
OverStratos
3rd Party Developer
 
OverStratos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 512
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
I wouldn't want to turn with a Mirage 2000 in a MiG-23.

Depends on speed. A straight wing MiG-23 will have a really small turn radius and high angular speed, and at low speeds overloads are not too high, combined with the R-60MK this could be really dangerous. This is of course one out of many possible scenarios, in the general diapason of turning performance the Mirage has the advantage so the 23 pilot should use more the vertical against such an opponent.
OverStratos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 07:48 PM   #27
halowraith1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverStratos View Post
Depends on speed. A straight wing MiG-23 will have a really small turn radius and high angular speed, and at low speeds overloads are not too high, combined with the R-60MK this could be really dangerous. This is of course one out of many possible scenarios, in the general diapason of turning performance the Mirage has the advantage so the 23 pilot should use more the vertical against such an opponent.
I have heard of this R-60MK variant but can't find much info on it, how does it differ from the R-60/R-60M, and will the MiG-23MLA module recieve it?
halowraith1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 09:01 PM   #28
Dudikoff
Senior Member
 
Dudikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Croatia / Lebanon
Posts: 2,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halowraith1 View Post
I have heard of this R-60MK variant but can't find much info on it, how does it differ from the R-60/R-60M, and will the MiG-23MLA module recieve it?
Export version of the R-60M.
__________________
i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
Dudikoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 10:45 PM   #29
AeriaGloria
Senior Member
 
AeriaGloria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LA
Posts: 2,247
Default

It’s almost always means export for Soviet/Russian gear. Unless it means naval
AeriaGloria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 06:34 AM   #30
OverStratos
3rd Party Developer
 
OverStratos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 512
Default

Not an export version, but a change in the proximity fuse from the R-60M optic one to a radar one on the R-60MK. Same limited all aspect missile.
OverStratos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:38 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.