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Old 02-19-2020, 10:16 AM   #11
AeriaGloria
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Looked up S-23E and your right it does have multiple PRF modes, must be something I heard on the big MLA thread. It does seem pretty complex, and without GCI will take a lot to master. Radar illumination of a heat source is pretty cool....
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:36 PM   #12
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Biggest issue with it will be that fuselage. It's not a lifting body design like a lot of modern aircraft, so I expect even with the forward sweep she'll bleed energy rather quickly in comparison to other aircraft during high AoA and be more unstable. The best part of it all, though.....


Is we'll get to find out
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonne View Post
Please keep in mind, we are getting an MiG-23MLA, not a MiG-23MS. Alot of statements in this thread are thus not relatable to what we get.

The N003 radar of the MLA was rather capable for its time and not to be compared with the radar we know from the MiG-21bis (and MiG-23MS). Detection ranges are said to be 55km against a fighter sized target above and 25km below horizon. The radar can automatically switch modes to the most suitable for the own and scanned altitude and has a range of different PRF available.
THe question was not that how great the MiG-23MLA was at the time it got out, but how capable it is against a F-16C Block 50 and F/A-18C Lot20...

As I said: "The MiG-23MLA is seriously underpowered as it was very serious threat to everything in the early 80's when it came out."

So it was great at the time ('78-'82) but completely old compared to those two fighters we have in DCS from 2000.

So while it has very good radar for its purpose at that time, it just has no match as overall aircraft against those modern multirole fighters.

We need more of the western aircrafts from 1975-1982 to get it shine.


Quote:
Regarding the RWR, it was already stated that we will get both the SPO-10 and SPO-15, as latter was a frequent update to the MLA.
That likely be a setting in SPECIAL tab in settings?
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:54 PM   #14
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If it’s like MiG-19P it’ll be a ME setting
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
Biggest issue with it will be that fuselage. It's not a lifting body design like a lot of modern aircraft, so I expect even with the forward sweep she'll bleed energy rather quickly in comparison to other aircraft during high AoA and be more unstable.
High speed ain't everything in the turning fight.
But I wouldn't take MiG-23MLA against F-14 either.

But one of the major things that will definitely put MiG-23MLA in great disadvantage is the lack of HMS. It would have helped a lot of that aircraft if it could just have been fitted nicely to the cockpit (that they couldn't).
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Old 02-20-2020, 03:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
High speed ain't everything in the turning fight.
But I wouldn't take MiG-23MLA against F-14 either.

But one of the major things that will definitely put MiG-23MLA in great disadvantage is the lack of HMS. It would have helped a lot of that aircraft if it could just have been fitted nicely to the cockpit (that they couldn't).
I didn't say it was, speed = energy however. If you can't maintain your speed, aka energy, to a point, then you end up unable to maneuver and moving very slowly or stalling outright. A lifting body design doesn't have such severe problems with that and can generally maintain higher AoA, thus them largely supplanting designs like the MiG-23.

It's not a bad aircraft against the F-4 or F-5, which I expect it would handily outperform, but against slightly more modern designs like the early teen fighters that were entering service alongside it, it was pretty much obsolete as soon as it arrived, even with the extensive redesigns it received to extend service life. That's why when the MiG-29 appeared they more or less dumped the MiG-23 enmasse or sold en to the 3rd world. They just weren't up to par anymore.

I think it will surprise the unwary WVR, but it will rarely live long enough to get that close in the current environment, and will still be badly disadvantaged even then.
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Old 02-20-2020, 04:10 AM   #17
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On the Cold War server though I bet there will be a fair share of people slinging R-24 at 12,000 meters and Mach 2 getting crazy range.

I love all MiGs, but I love the 21 more. But I won’t be able to resist the speed, sensors and missiles, it’s like a poor mans MiG-25, as nonsensical as that sounds. I’m sure it’ll have its own ground attack users, not a BN or 27 but with UB32 pods and other assorted Soviet ground attack ordinance, it’ll be very good at Viggen style attacks utilizing its speed at low altitude. I wonder if it can go supersonic down low? I know the 21 is limited to subsonic speeds below 15,000 feet
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Old 02-20-2020, 06:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
THe question was not that how great the MiG-23MLA was at the time it got out, but how capable it is against a F-16C Block 50 and F/A-18C Lot20...
My comment was more targeted to the Mirage comparison. But yes against those fighters from at least 30 years later, it will not have a chance. Same for a Tomcat, which in its A version is more or less from the same time.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:35 PM   #19
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Stated previously that SPO-15 is optional and countermeasures dispensers are part of the loadout. As for interdiction - yes its supersonic on the deck, and also it has a remote-controlled hat-switch steered A-G missile.
Comparing it to MiG-25 - its a newer platform, with a better radar(25's were later upgraded with the 23's radar's derivative), has better BVR missiles, though only two comparing to 25's four. And of course it can dogfight while 25 is a drag racer only. Initial MiG-25's radar was pulse without look-down, comparable to first phantom-2's, still having an impressive range for its time, only on high altitude.
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #20
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The Cubans had a very good experience using the MIG-23ML in Angola vs South Africans Mirage F1.

As many people stated here, the use of GCI is mandatory for Russian airplanes in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. But the Cubans managed to fight the Mirage F1 many times without losses. They even damaged a C-130 of the CIA, which they used to deliver weapons to UNITA rebel group and shot down another one.

I quote to author Ruben Urribarres:

"With the escalation of the conflict at the end of 1987, air fighting begins with the South African SAAF's Mirage F1. On September 27, 1987, the Cuban MiG-23ML piloted by Major Alberto Ley Rivas, and his wingman, First Lieutenant Juan Carlos Chavez Godoy, take off to CAP a helicopter rescue mission through the Cuito Cuanavale area, when they receive the warning of the GCI, that two South African fighters penetrate Angolan airspace heading north.

They were two Mirage F1CZ of the SAAF 3rd Squadron, piloted by Commander Leader Carlo Gaggiano and his wingman Captain Arthur Piercy. The MiG-23ML follow the radar indications to intercept the Mirages, approaching from the front. The Chavez's MiG-23ML radar locked the first Mirage F1 at 12 km, but cannot fire its medium-range R-24R missile, as both pairs of fighters turned, and from its position the Rivas MiG-23ML remained ahead (Rivas carried only short-range missiles R-60MK -AA-8 Aphid-).

The two pairs of fighters merged, and turn horizontally to stand on each other's tail. However, the MiG-23ML has clear superiority of maneuver over the inert Mirage F1, and its turning radius is smaller. In a few seconds Rivas manages to get in the tail of Mirage F1CZ SAAF-206 of Piercy, and shoots an R-60MK at 300 meters distance, which explodes in its tail. Chavez and the GCI shouted excitedly confirming the impact. It was 2:36 p.m. The other Mirage, seeing the fate of his companion, abruptly stings to the ground, and leaves the combat in a flush to Namibia. The MiG-23ML consider the first Mirage shot down, and try to chase the second plane, but they were already at the fuel limit, returning to base.

Piercy was able to get out of the fight but damaged, it stings to the ground to go unnoticed, and at full speed he goes to his airfield in Rundu, Namibia. The R-60MK missile exploded near the nozzle, damaging the wings and rudders, the parachute broke off, but the worst part was that the hydraulic system, which powers the controls, was seriously damaged, and began to fail. Piercy barely controls his Mirage F1CZ, and when trying to land he leaves the track, crashes losing the train. From the blow the catapult shot up, Piercy's parachute has no time to open, and it hits the ground. As a result Piercy seriously damages the spine and becomes invalid. His Mirage F1CZ 206 is discharged and was cannibalized to fix the Mirage F1 205. For years South Africa concealed the loss by combat of this Mirage, describing it as an accident, although today it recognizes that the cause of that supposed accident was the combat with Rivas."

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG23aa-e.html
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