Pimax 8K through the lens

Best FOV and picture quality, I guess

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-review-through-the-lens-videos-and-comparison-images/18570?u=century

Damnit, why did I go for the 5k? :doh:

that looks great! well done on the lens capture too, tough to do.

Damnit, why did I go for the 5k? :doh:

5K+ looks better than the 8K

5K+ looks better than the 8K

IIRC you've seen both at a tech show haven't you. Can you elaborate a bit?

I have the 5k right now, and with Wags unexpected positive preview/words of the Rift S (which I wasn't planning to buy based on early rumors), the number of other HMDs which I need to try is expanding rapidly. Just trying to gather as much intel as possible, since the HP Reverb, Rift S now, the Pmax8k, Acer's new announced unit, etc etc...

I'm so confused... I guess the next few months ought to provide us with the front runners. I’m ready to purchase one of these VR bad boy headsets but applying patience right now.

Doesn't the 8K simply super sample? So a 5K+ with a PD turned up would be the same thing I thought. Don't know for sure.

I'm so confused... I guess the next few months ought to provide us with the front runners. I’m ready to purchase one of these VR bad boy headsets but applying patience right now.

I know what you mean. Hate it when a lot of headsets are "revealed", but with no relevant specs to compare like for like.

I can be a little impulsive and when the reverb is launched, it will be hard not to pull the trigger at once.

The valve will be horrendously expensive for current Rift owners as I have heard that the base stations will NOT be included in the headset package. This will add a further £200 on top of the purchase price. For this reason I think valve is not for me.

The Reverb lacks mechanical IPD adjustment, yet is optimized for 64mm with further software adjustment. I happen to be at 63.5 - 64mm. I like the familiarity of the rift like look. Some expressed concerns about the sweet spot, however reverb sweet spot has been increased by 33%.

Reverb two camera tracking. Not a problem with hotas and seated games like dcs. However I fly long missions and it may get dark outside causing tracking to fail. Someone suggested stringing led strings around for the cameras to track...

I have solar powered LED strings in the garden and a few spare sets still in their boxes. My man cave is dedicated to my gaming, so it is no problem to plonk them on a window sill to charge up and string them out when there is the chance it will get dark during my dcs session. Dusk arrives, they switch on automatically and problem solved. Automatic and eco friendly solar powered solution. Obviously you would not want them on your living room window sill. People would look at you funny.

However as a speccy four eyes, I have concerns about the suitability for spectacle wearers. I have one pair which is fine for the rift and another pair that will not fit.

Adam from tested is also a speccy four eyes and he made no comment about glasses not fitting.

Then we have the Acer. From the blurb it says the display is 4320 suggesting that it is a single screen, yet it appears to have mechanical IPD adjustment which suggests two screens at 2160.

With no release date and very sketchy details, it is not a contender at this time.

Pimax. Again, expensive and the need to buy base stations. Not a contender.

From this meagre info, it still looks like the reverb is the one at this moment in time. This may change between now and the end of the month when other firm details such as pricing and included parts may be released.

It is frustrating that businesses these days are incapable of being up front about anything.

Pimax 8K and 5K+ have unbelievable FOV.

No any other devices have the same one. That is why Pimax is a best for VR, espec for DCS.

Best FOV and picture quality, I guess

 

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-review-through-the-lens-videos-and-comparison-images/18570?u=century

 

Have to say that those images are sharp. Good job on capturing them, from what I have heard, capturing through the lens video is notoriously difficult.

It is simple. 2160p display has higher PPI around 800 vs 530 on the 5K 1440p display. That is the reason why SDE is the smallest on 8K. Problem with 8K it is nor full RGB, same as OLED so it is not clear and crisp as 5K because of it.

All this HMDs running at the same 1440p resolution so they have exactly the same PPD.

Only 8KX will have a full benefit of 4K display per eye when they will run 2160p as native resolution. Only that will increase clarity on 8K and if they manage to get full RGB 4K display that size that will additionally increase clarity.

That's the only secret about 8K and only benefit is for those who can't tolerate SDE.

For the Pimax large field of view headsets, I would recommend the Pimax 5k+ in anyway before the Pimax8k.

Pimax startet their kickstarter campaign with the Pimax 8k only some years ago. The FOV and Resolution of the 8k was and still is kind of revolutionary in the market for VR headsets. Approx a year after the start of the kickstarter campaign, Pimax invented the 5K+ and offered to the backers of the original 8k to switch to the 5k+.

The thing is, that both, the 8k and the 5k+ gets the same input signal of 2560x1440 via DisplayPort ( once I´ve read it´s the maximum resolution a DP connection could handle ).

But the panels of the 8k are different from the 5k+. The 8k got panel resolution 3840 x 2160 per eye and the 5k+ has got panels of 2560x1440 per eye. Both at same 170° horizontal field of view.

The 8k has got an internal upscaler, which scales the native input signal of 2560x1440 up to 3840x2160. This results the picture of the 8k in less clarity and sharpness compared to the 5K+.

Also the panels of the 8k has got a diagonal pixel matrix, the 5k+ has got a horizontal pixel matrix, which supports a better clarity and sharpness.

With both the SDE is minimal visible in a comparative way, in anyway less visible, than with any other headset available at the moment and not worth mentioning.

But the overall picture clarity makes a difference, as with the 8k the picture gets liitle fog through the internal upscaling process. Having a native resolution is always the best, when it comes to picture clarity.

To get comparable picture quality from the 8k to the 5k+, the 8k would need much more supersampling on cost of performance, than the 5k+, which is already very challenging to perform well.

I have watched that video many times now, each with dropped jaw - the realism is just amazing. If not for the shadow flicker, I would think it real.

However, it doesn't look like 170 deg field of view to me - rather much narrower FoV than that. Can someone explain this? What am I not understanding?

I have watched that video many times now, each with dropped jaw - the realism is just amazing. If not for the shadow flicker, I would think it real.

 

However, it doesn't look like 170 deg field of view to me - rather much narrower FoV than that. Can someone explain this? What am I not understanding?

Simply it is camera FOV not HMD. Probably done by mobile phone.

I have watched that video many times now, each with dropped jaw - the realism is just amazing. If not for the shadow flicker, I would think it real.

 

However, it doesn't look like 170 deg field of view to me - rather much narrower FoV than that. Can someone explain this? What am I not understanding?

It's impossible to get FOV through the lens. I tried the "wide" setting in GoPro and still does not come through.

I'll tell you this, as a LONG time Rift user with zero complaints, P5K+'s Normal FOV blew me away.

IIRC you've seen both at a tech show haven't you. Can you elaborate a bit?

 

 

I have the 5k right now, and with Wags unexpected positive preview/words of the Rift S (which I wasn't planning to buy based on early rumors), the number of other HMDs which I need to try is expanding rapidly. Just trying to gather as much intel as possible, since the HP Reverb, Rift S now, the Pmax8k, Acer's new announced unit, etc etc...

Basically the 8k is 1440p (or 2k) upscaled to 4k... the 5k+ is 2k no up scaling, the difference however is the actual pixel format itself. the 8k uses a pixel format much like the Rift CV1 and Vive called Pen-tile

The 5k+ uses RGB stripe

Notice the difference? A lot less black space (screen door effect) between the pixels, improving clarity. The image itself wont really be that much better upscaled on the 8k, maybe just slightly, but with the SDE on the 8k you end up failing to take advantage of any clarity the up scaling would give you.

Right now, I am still using the Oculus Rift on a GTX 1080. When I chose the Oculus Rift, it was a no-brainer. There were really only two good choices at the time and I got to try both the HTC Vive and Rift that my brother had with DCS World. The only thing that seemed to be better on the Vive was full room VR, and I wasn't going to use it that way since I would be primarily sitting in a home cockpit.

But I want to give my GTX 1080 and Oculus Rift to my son once I get a slightly newer/better gpu and pair it with a newer/better VR headset. But there are a lot more choices and I don't have a way to try them out for myself. Reading other peoples' opinions can be useful, but they are all over the place. The Pimax 5K+ sounds great in this thread, but then I can find people who have tried them all and settled on something else such as the Samsung Odyssey+. Wags' review of the new Rift S has me seriously considering that option that I previously dismissed based on initial specs. I need all of these devices to be in one place where I can try them with DCS so I can judge for myself the tradeoffs between image quality, head tracking, comfort, performance, etc. I want some that is equal or better than the Rift I have now in every category, but I am not planning on upgrading my cpu, RAM, or motherboard anytime soon, so it can't require too much more resources. If I had to guess, the Rift S sounds like the best choice, but the Odyssey+ and Pimax5k+ are very strong contenders. HP's offering sounds interesting, too, but almost certainly needs a dramatic step forward in cpu/RAM/gpu processing to enjoy it properly... so many choices, so little money!

Reading this thread sold me on the Pimax5k+, but then I read this:

I really need a couple of hours with each competitor to make the best choice.

Don't we all ! With its fine detail , long-distance views , the need to read instruments , high-speed flight , and spotting requirements , DCS imposes unique requirements on VR .

I took a major leap of faith when getting my Rift , as i live in the sticks , and don't know anyone locally who flightsims , let alone in DCS or VR .

I'll be doing the same with my next headset purchase , a Rift S or perhaps the Pimax 5k with a 2080 , depending .

The whole thing is further complicated by the upcoming VR fps increase and whether it unloads the cpu or gpu .

Hopefully the next few months will yield many of the answers we are looking for...

I have waited many years (at least since the 90s) for VR to become practical... it is hovering right on the edge... almost good enough to be mainstream. But it may end up like 3d TVs, another flash in the pan that people just can't/won't use because it isn't good enough/cost effective.

In its present form, I use the Oculus Rift about 50% of the time due to its inferior resolution and overall image quality. It is painful to toggle back and forth between 2d and VR. In VR, I get tired of the graphics. In 2d, I get tired of the limitations of Track IR and 2d. I can't stand either one. I need VR to come up to the visual quality and performance of 2d to be happy, and it just isn't available yet even if you buy a $2,500 gpu.

I have waited many years (at least since the 90s) for VR to become practical... it is hovering right on the edge... almost good enough to be mainstream. But it may end up like 3d TVs, another flash in the pan that people just can't/won't use because it isn't good enough/cost effective.

 

In its present form, I use the Oculus Rift about 50% of the time due to its inferior resolution and overall image quality. It is painful to toggle back and forth between 2d and VR. In VR, I get tired of the graphics. In 2d, I get tired of the limitations of Track IR and 2d. I can't stand either one. I need VR to come up to the visual quality and performance of 2d to be happy, and it just isn't available yet even if you buy a $2,500 gpu.

Different strokes i guess-I haven't flown pancake since getting the Rift . But i am looking forward to better resolution . I have great hopes for the Rift S . And who knows , with the upcoming 50% increase in VR frames , even a 5k+ should run well on a 2080 . Then there is Vulcan . Exciting times !

Hopefully In the next few years most hardware issues holding back VR will be resolved. I expect these forum conversations to be entirely different starting in the next few months.

After going on the journey I've been on with high end hardware (i9-9900, 2080ti card, and Odyssey plus), I think we may be 2-3 years out for the holy grail of high resolution HMDs with a card that can consistently drive the detailed content to the HMD without stutter or lag. It's definitely coming, but I don't think it's here with the HMD offering due out this summer/fall. With all the optimizations I've done with my o+, vr is good, but I still have many minor issues.

I am NOT saying the new HMDs won't be playable, just not that 'it looks so good I can't believe it' state. I also anticipate we need some time for the software to catch up to the hardware too. Some of the tools are still not fully optimized, not to mention DCS itself.

The upcoming terrain engine updates could make a good dent in reducing or maybe eliminating the stutter and shimmer on existing HMDs- the two bains of VR existence.

I do think we'll know either way by late summer.

+1 on the shimmer ! I all but had it eliminated in 1080p , only to find it back in VR . (Sigh)

Wow, nice to see my video getting posted and discussed here!

Here is another, longer but similar video in which I fumbled with the focus a bit:

And here is the link to my full review of the Pimax 8K (which was also linked in the first post):

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/updated-with-new-5k-impressions-pimax-8k-review-through-the-lens-videos-and-comparison-images/18570

I also added thoughts about 5K+ vs 8K to the review.

I tried many different games while writing the above review, but when I tried DCS I was really stunned. It looks really amazing and immersion level is wonderful. So much so that I've bought the F/A 18 and going through the training missions now.

In summary 5K+ vs 8K I like the 8K because the SDE is less visible. However 5K+ also has its positives and it is less expensive too.

I tried a Vive recently after playing only my 8K for 2 weeks. It was like looking through a tube ... both vertical and horizontal FOV felt so small.