Opponent for the MIG21

Hey Pilots!

I want to fly the mig versus historic/authentic opponents. Now I tried to create my own mission with B-52, they are already in dcs. But now I realized that there is no F4 Phantom.

Is there a way to add a F4 for AI?

My second question: Are there already any authentic opponents in DCS for the MIG, beside the B52? Maybe I overseen one...

Because flying a MIG versus a F16 seems odd to me.

Thank you very much!

Last time I checked there was a F-4 Phantom in DCSW.

Use Germany or Turkey for example, you can place it then. :)

The -21bis never flew in Vietnam, so its contemporaries are pretty much anything that isn't a WWII piston fighter or the two 1st Genners.

Yeah, actually when you look at the date it entered service (1972 IIRC) its opponent is a F-14, F-16A or Tornado.

Thank you very much guys!

I forgot about changing the nation, now with germany there is a F-4E :thumbup:

I also checked more details of the first flight and so on, really the F14 and stuff... are they not a bit more powered than the mig? Avionics, Weapon systems and stuff?

Depends on the plane. The MiG-21Bis's contemporary opponents are the F-4E, F-5E (flyable soon), F-14A, F-15A, F-16A (sort of), Mirage F.1 and tbh, the MiG-21Bis itself (lots of MiG-21 vs MiG-21 fights over the years). Of those, it's competitive with the F-4E, F-5E, F-16A, Mirage F.1 and itself of course. The F-14 and 15 were better matched against the MiG-23, MiG-25 and Su-15, all of which were produced alongside the MiG-21Bis.

Edit: important note, the F-16A couldn't carry AIM-120's or AIM-7's like it can in DCS, the real one had 4x AIM-9's + a gun. The AIM-9's weren't AIM-9M's initially either. It wasn't until around 1990 that someone finally strapped an AIM-7 to an F-16, nearly 20 years after the MiG-21Bis entered production.

The -21bis never flew in Vietnam, so its contemporaries are pretty much anything that isn't a WWII piston fighter or the two 1st Genners.

From multiple sources, the MiG-21 (Non Bis) did fly in Vietnam.

Depends on the plane. The MiG-21Bis's contemporary opponents are the F-4E, F-5E (flyable soon), F-14A, F-15A, F-16A (sort of), Mirage F.1 and tbh, the MiG-21Bis itself (lots of MiG-21 vs MiG-21 fights over the years). Of those, it's competitive with the F-4E, F-5E, F-16A, Mirage F.1 and itself of course. The F-14 and 15 were better matched against the MiG-23, MiG-25 and Su-15, all of which were produced alongside the MiG-21Bis.

 

Edit: important note, the F-16A couldn't carry AIM-120's or AIM-7's like it can in DCS, the real one had 4x AIM-9's + a gun. The AIM-9's weren't AIM-9M's initially either. It wasn't until around 1990 that someone finally strapped an AIM-7 to an F-16, nearly 20 years after the MiG-21Bis entered production.

Thank you! Very informative, I think I will dive into some historic sources in the next time.

EDIT: Yes, the mig flew in vietnam - https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=fqP2qRfmoQA

Yes they did, but not the -Bis version and that's what Fishbed was pointing out I guess.

I think the ones served in Vietnam were PF / PFM and MF versions, may be F-13 too.

Although Bis may have entered service before Vietnam conflict was fully extinguished, it didn't fly for North Vietnamese forces in conflict. MF may be somewhat close but, overall Bis is significantlly different from all those versions.

From multiple sources, the MiG-21 (Non Bis) did fly in Vietnam.

That's literally what I said. No bis saw action during the Vietnam war. And WinterH is correct. The VPAF used F-13s, PFLs, and PFMs. The -21bis didn't even enter production until '72 and the first export customers received it in '75. The first VPAF -21bis' were ordered in '79.

 

Edit: important note, the F-16A couldn't carry AIM-120's or AIM-7's like it can in DCS, the real one had 4x AIM-9's + a gun. The AIM-9's weren't AIM-9M's initially either. It wasn't until around 1990 that someone finally strapped an AIM-7 to an F-16, nearly 20 years after the MiG-21Bis entered production.

The F-16A Blk. 15's could carry AIM-7s. The first of the Blk. 15s rolled out in '82. It also accounts for about a 5th of F-16 production.

 

Edit: important note, the F-16A couldn't carry AIM-120's or AIM-7's like it can in DCS, the real one had 4x AIM-9's + a gun. The AIM-9's weren't AIM-9M's initially either. It wasn't until around 1990 that someone finally strapped an AIM-7 to an F-16, nearly 20 years after the MiG-21Bis entered production.

I so wish there would be a quicker way to see the accurate times of weapons and aircrafts when in the loadout screen, and then of course in the encyclopedia.

And if we could get a slider to limit the year when building missions (meaning years/months are entered to weapons/units) it would make very easy to build missions for given era.

Mig-21Bis is an upgrade. Mig-21Bis vs F-5E is more balanced.

F-4 is much more powerful fighter. he is a full 3Th generation fighter and the opponent is Mig-23.

Mig-23 is not in the level of F-14 4Th generation fighter, but he can support the level fighting together with Mig-25.

It's also worth pointing out that there were a large number of dogfights between MiG-21 MF/PFM and other pre-bis variants against Israeli Mirage IIICJs and Neshers (Nesherim?) during the 1967-1973 conflicts, including at least one dogfight involving Soviet MiG-21 pilots. That being said, by the time that the MiG-21bis was available for export, Israel had already received the F-15A, and they were first used in combat against MiG-21s in 1979.

But still, if you want to limit your loadout to the R-3S and R-60, a Mirage III variant would be an obvious choice for an opponent for the MiG-21. A Kfir would be the logical comparison to the MiG-21bis specifically, since they were both released at almost the same time as the final major variant for their specific aircraft models.

Unfortunately, I don't think DCS: World currently has a Mirage III for AI use. And the Mirage 2000C is a very different aircraft. Now, if someone wanted to create a Kfir for DCS: World, that'd be a day one purchase from me, but I'm not sure that it's very likely.