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IMPROVED AAR


JTFF - Raph

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A better way to do that is to bracket the options by thousands of pounds of fuel...or in half thousands? "Panton 4-1, requesting 4K"

 

+1

Makes more sense to me. The amount of transfered fuel is what's important. Not the fuel state of the airframe. This helps to distribute the limited fuel of a tanker to the rest of the flight.

 

A Boom / Basket with a collision model would be nice, but more a nice to have in my opinion.

I prefer to have a KC-135 MRPS which can supply both types of refueling and better comunication.

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So here's my suggestion for requesting a download quantity.

 

 

I'm a fan of expanding current functionality if at all possible, and I think we have the tools needed to make a somewhat easier fix for this problem (I like simply expanding the current UI).

 

 

As it currently stands, the Rearm/Refuel window is unavailable when the aircraft is airborne. I propose creating an exception which is only valid when the user has opened communication with a tanker. The current user interaction will experience no change (I.E. tanker will fill all tanks unless told to do otherwise), but you will have the ability to use the usual key combination to bring up the rearm/refuel menu. There, you can use the slider to adjust the fuel quantity to the desired amount, and then when you select OK, the tanker will fill the aircraft's internal tanks until they match the quantity of the slider when the window was closed. After that point the usual "Transfer complete, Disconnect" behavior will resume.

 

 

 

cEKb83Q.png

 

 

I propose making this available immediately after the radio call, so that the user can set their fuel options before they even attempt a rejoin, which allows them room to be distracted by the refuel window. I don't even think there needs to be any way to restrict choosing new loadouts.. as the tanker just won't comply with that request, just as airfields with no ammunition supply ignore it now...

 

 

Let me know what you think.

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(I.E. tanker will fill all tanks unless told to do otherwise)

This is aircraft (pilot) controlled. Tanker can just start or stop the pump.

And I don't like the idea of the whole rearm window just to set fuel amount.

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This is aircraft (pilot) controlled. Tanker can just start or stop the pump.

This could certainly be a possibility, which negates the entire need for requesting a fuel quantity.

In all the boom aircraft I own (not sure about the FC3 F-15/A-10A) there is a HOTAS command to disconnect. When reading about Probe refueling, I learned that extending the hose by moving the receiving aircraft aft shuts off fuel flow. So it would seem that all receiving aircraft have the ability to stop the fueling process when they reach the desired level.

 

 

But that also seems unlikely, as both scenarios leave a lot of fuel still in the hose/boom itself. It's also possible that these actions are taken after the tanker stops the fuel transfer, in which case we still need the ability to request the fuel flow to stop at a predetermined point, after which we can use the previously mentioned disconnection steps.

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What I meant was how it is IRL. Aircraft/pilot usually has control over what tanks are being filled when AAR - including externals or not. Tanker only controls the flow. Drouge is automatic, based on hose extension and boom has human operator.

 

Both requests should be implemented: one for fuel quantity and one to stop (used rather for emergency, not to decide "I'm good, it's enough").

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Okay,

I think there might have been some confusion on my statement of,

 

 

the tanker will fill the aircraft's internal tanks until they match the quantity of the slider when the window was closed
I understand that the pilot has control over filling externals. In all the aircraft I have in AAR they are filled first. But this can be interrupted. The point of this statement was that the simulation doesn't need to have detailed information about the fuel distribution of the aircraft, since the user knows how fuel will be distributed when they join up. The simulation can just easily compare internal fuel quantity with the slider setting.

 

 

If the pilot disables external tank filling, they perform the appropriate switchology, and the sim stops when internal fuel reaches the value.

If the pilot enables external tank filling, this is usually the default setup, and the fuel transfers to the internals until they are filled. The sim then stops when internal fuel reaches the slider value on the rearming/refueling window.

 

 

The only thing the sim needs to check is the internal fuel quantity, which is adjustable with the slider on the rearm/refuel window. The user controls movement of fuel to external tanks via switchology, and the aircraft systems handle the refuel distribution according to the real aircraft logic.

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There are several different ways refueling ops happens IRL. The most common way is for the pilot to simply tell the tanker they want X amount of fuel at check in. For instance, “Rocket 21 flight, checking in - 5K offload”. Or “top off” would be the call to pump until full. The flight lead can also individually manage the total flight offload and give a wingman more gas if he’s lower than the rest of the flight.

 

During max EMCON ops, usually the fuel offloads are already built into the plan for each flight that shows up to the tanker. The fighters plug in, get their pre-briefed amount of gas and go on with their mission without any radio calls. Unless its just a peacetime training mission, most tankers have a limited amount of gas to pass and its planned down to the pound to distribute to the strike packages.

 

And while the pilot can configure the switches to only fuel certain tanks by locking others out, that’s not the norm unless there’s either a system malfunction or they might want to keep their wing tanks empty for instance for better maneuverability. But normally the fuel load is managed by getting the briefed offload amount and let the jet’s system distribute it around the tanks for best CG and such.

 

And as has been already said, every jet that I’m aware of has a disconnect switch (for boom ops, not sure about drogue) to stop the refueling and get off the boom when they feel they have enough.

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Nice imagination but highly improbable. Name one real life accident due to flamability of the fuel during AAR. Jet fuel has to be vapourised to be dangerous. And no one uses AB near the tanker anyway.

Looks like nobody cares here:

 

Okay okay what if someone happens to blast full afterburner at the severed nozzle ??? Still no?

 

Otherwise yeah I have stretched my imagination on this one (darn Die Hard 2), perhaps no need to go that far as to the whole air-fuel-rain-humidity-temp simulation haha, reading the super-rushy post I wrote makes me dumb now.

 

Now this may not be scientific, may not be even the fuel type military uses ... but hey pay attention to the little sprayer at 2:30 minute mark, if that can do it, the rush out of the nozzle at 500 knots should as well rigth?

 


Edited by Worrazen

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