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Current state of the Viggen?


JanTelefon

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:doh:

 

Do a little exercise. Close your right eye, put your left eye against the sight and note where the image is shown. Now close the left eye and put your right eye in the same spot. See the difference?

And now disable VR and check how it should look like.

What i should see?

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

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I've already explained it in my first post in this thread. The Mav image for the left eye is drawn in different place than the image for the right eye, even though you look from the same spot. That's not possible in real life, like having a spyglass that shows different image depending on whether you use it with your left eye or right eye.


Edited by some1

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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I've already explained it in my first post in this thread. The Mav image for the left eye is drawn in different place than the image for the right eye, even though you look from the same spot.

 

When I look from same spot in VR, I see what I should see, the left eye see slightly little axis compared to right eye. That is because it is collimator sight.

 

If I move my left eye on the position where right eye was, I see same thing as my right eye did see, but because now my right eye is further on right, it see again as well different axis as it should.

 

That's not possible in real life, like having a spyglass that shows different image depending on whether you use it with your left eye or right eye.

 

Erhh... What? If I position my left eye in same position as my right eye, the crosshair is still in the same place. Meaning if I center my right eye so the crosshair is center of the sight and then I move my left eye to same position as my right eye was, the crosshair is again in center of the sight.

 

 

You are suppose to sit in normal position and just move your head slightly to right to get a good sighting and not to stick your eye on the tube like you explained.

 

A collimator sight polarize the display so it shines straight forward and not all directions like CRT display does in a KA-50 or Su-25T. Instead because the optics and polarization (collimation) both eyes can't see exactly same thing same time as the right eye can't receive same light as does the left eye and you are looking different parts of the same image because the screen is inside the tube and not in the front lens like CRT tube technology does.

 

The VR technology requires to do a dual-pairing of everything. And as the collimator sight screen is deeply inside the tube and gets rendered twice for stereographic reasons, you are doing wrong by playing with left eye/right eye individually game in the first place as both eyes gets a different drawing so it looks correct when you use both eyes.

 

To fix that thing the display should be rendered in 2D in the front lens and it would look just not collimator sight and 2D, but you could go and play your one-eye-at-the-time-like-pirate-game as much you want.

 

So use your both eyes, use it as you are suppose to use from far distance without pushing your eye on it.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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I don't exactly know how collimated sights work, so can't be sure whether this applies them or not. However, there is such a thing IRL as two eyes seeing things in different places.

 

They are offset from each other, and seen from a different angle each, it is brain that creates a composite image of two, so we perceive one image. Often, we tend to see things in the pace which our "dominant eye" see them.

 

Difference becomes apparent when shooting for example, and I found it out in a weird way when learning archery a few months ago: I am cross-dominant unfortunately for me, I am a lefty when it comes to hands, but my dominant eye is my right eye. I began shooting left handed with a lefty bow first. I wasn't using a sight yet, and was shooting with both eyes open with a decent accuracy for a beginner. Then when I began learning to shoot with a sight, it all came apart, and no matter how I set the sights, I was shooting waaaaaay to the right. Only when I began shooting right handed, and hence using my right eye to aim with sight, did things began to make sense :P, even though I was using my less dextrous and weaker arm to draw and release.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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If I move my left eye on the position where right eye was, I see same thing as my right eye did see, but because now my right eye is further on right, it see again as well different axis as it should.

 

I though that "close your eye" in the instruction I wrote could not be simpler. I never said anything about looking at the sight with both your eyes at the same time. Just the opposite: look with one eye, then move the other one to the same spot and check if the image is in the same place. It is not, which in real life is not possible.

 

It's just easier to check with your head against the sight, because it's a good reference point, so you can be sure you're looking from the same spot. Unfortunately DCS only makes a screenshot of the left eye in VR, so I can' simply show the problem on a picture.


Edited by some1

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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I never said anything about looking at the sight with both your eyes at the same time. Just the opposite: look with one eye, then move the other one to the same spot and check if the image is in the same place. It is not, which in real life is not possible.

 

It's just easier to check with your head against the sight, because it's a good reference point.

Did you read what I wrote?

 

1) do not stick your eye ball in sight as it ain't meant to used so!

 

2) it is correct for me when correctly used as it is supposed.

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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I don't exactly know how collimated sights work, so can't be sure whether this applies them or not. However, there is such a thing IRL as two eyes seeing things in different places.

 

They are offset from each other, and seen from a different angle each, it is brain that creates a composite image of two, so we perceive one image. Often, we tend to see things in the pace which our "dominant eye" see them.

 

 

Did you read what I wrote?

 

1) do not stick your eye ball in sight as it ain't meant to used so!

 

2) it is correct for me when correctly used as it is supposed.

 

 

 

Man, I really hope that it's just a problem with my limited English vocabulary, as I can't make the explanation more dumb.

The image can not appear in real life in different place when you look at it with the other eye from the same spot. What your mind does with this later is irrelevant to the discussion. You can look at the sight from up close, you can look from the back of the cockpit - does not matter. If you look from the regular flying position, it's just harder to place your eye in the exactly same spot for comparison, but the issue is still there.

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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The image can not appear in real life in different place when you look at it with the other eye from the same spot.

 

Well that's the problem, it can, and does happen IRL: look at something, use your hands to frame it with (put the thing you are looking at in the middle of frame), close one eye, and then the other, you will see the thing at a different place in relation to your frame with both eyes, one will be at the spot where both your eyes are open, and this is your "dominant eye", and the other one will be offset to a side, possibly even out of the frame.

 

Edit: however, I am not saying how it is in the module is either correct, or incorrect, I don't do VR after all. All I'm saying is, such difference between perceived position of things according to either eye does happen IRL, and your wording seem to argue against this.


Edited by WinterH

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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Well that's the problem, it can, and does happen IRL: look at something, use your hands to frame it with (put the thing you are looking at in the middle of frame), close one eye, and then the other, you will see the thing at a different place in relation to your frame with both eyes, one will be at the spot where both your eyes are open, and this is your "dominant eye", and the other one will be offset to a side, possibly even out of the frame.

 

Of course if you don't move your head then your eyes will see a different picture. They are not in the same spot after all, and thanks to that we humans have stereoscopic vision.

 

But imagine a keyhole - first you peek with one eye, then you put your other eye against it. Are you supposed to see different things if your eye looks from the same spot?

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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There simply isn't that much which is broken. The list of major issues is dwindling rapidly.

We'll get there quicker than you think. :)

 

There have been about 200 minor and major fixes since release- and that does not include hundreds of hours spent on new features that have not been announced.

 

For the VR collimation issue: Chris has just received his Rift and can now troubleshoot directly (instead of indirectly by the rest of us reporting in).

This still seems like a base engine level issue currently.

 

Hi Nicholas. Quick off-topic here to give feedback!

Would just like to say that I like your tone and style on the many last responses to the community. It's difficult to infer through text, of course, but you seem to be aiming for a measured, neutral tone without jumping towards unnecessary conflict. Other devs and ED staff haven't always done so (they are only human after all), so it feels nice to have this sort of communication from you.

Gj gj! :thumbup:

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I understand what some1 is saying. He doesn't mean the head being in the same spot, he means each individual eye being in the same spot. Of course, without moving your head, if you close your dominant eye, then the object you are looking at will appear to shift. But what he is saying is, close your left eye, and look at the object with your right eye. Then close your right eye, and move your head a bit to the right so that the left eye is where the right eye was looking from, the picture should be the exact same as with the right eye because you are viewing the image from the exact same location as you were with the right eye. And he is saying that the images are not the same

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