Harrier Field Operations

Like any self respecting Harrier fan should know, the doctrine from which the whole family emerged was the ability to operate away from regular airbases, considered vulnerable should the Cold War go hot.

Sadly, in DCS this is not exactly feasible. Indeed, even on airfield grass, the DCS Grass Monster (patent pending) is eager to eat up your gear should you dare to go fast on it, like during a STO for instance.

Given that grass airfields still don't work, and that VL/VTO isn't really practical, is there hope that a fix will happen that'll make the Harrier able to operate from fields?

The Yak 52 can with no issues, and grass airfields IRL are not much more than massive lawns.

Given that grass airfields still don't work, and that VL/VTO isn't really practical

I guess your milage may vary, but I've had good success operating from FARPs off the helipad. 23,000 pounds is you vertical lift limit (in game will into the 30 degrees Celsius as well). I've taken off with normal payloads albeit reduced fuel. Set up a tanker within 10 or 15 miles, fill your internals and externals and head out.

My guess is a lack of imagination is keeping you from finding what you can do with this plane.

Sunstag put out a mod with Matt's which can be used to make FARPs more believable, but I found the 1500' sections not to work in most parts of the maps, but that doesn't stop you from seeing up next to a road.

My point being, you can do exactly what you're asking about, no fix is needed.

And no, the aircraft can't just go taxiing around on grass. It wouldn't make it a few feet before being stuck in the dirt.

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I've done operating from FARPS vertically, but it really isn't too practical, unless you like tiptoeing to the tanker before doing anything else.

I've discussed the BFVG ( or however that is spelled ) mod with some friends, and the main problem with those is it's difficult to find a place flat enough to make a working FARP with a sizeable runway.

I've flown from grass fields and they aren't much different from essentially big gardens, and if the airshow I go to allows Transalls to do tactical landings on its grass runway, surely the harrier can land there, especially say in the Winter, or anytime the ground isn't broken up or filled with water.

Have you watched my link ? Art Nalls quite clearly takes off from grass, it doesn't get stuck, yet ours does. Even warbirds take a pounding when attempting grass takeoffs, when they did operate from airFIELDs in WW2.

It doesn't seem too outlandish for me to ask that the Harrier's gear withstand grass just a lil better, when quite clearly other aircraft can in the sim.

I think if you want to have a really usable Harrier FARP you'll want to use this: DCS Marsden Farp

You will still have to pick out a very flat piece of ground to place the FARP field, but you can also simply put some sections next to a road and not have to lay down an entire landing stretch.

Difficult Yes...Impossible No....

I've done operating from FARPS vertically, but it really isn't too practical, unless you like tiptoeing to the tanker before doing anything else.

 

 

I've discussed the BFVG ( or however that is spelled ) mod with some friends, and the main problem with those is it's difficult to find a place flat enough to make a working FARP with a sizeable runway.

 

 

I've flown from grass fields and they aren't much different from essentially big gardens, and if the airshow I go to allows Transalls to do tactical landings on its grass runway, surely the harrier can land there, especially say in the Winter, or anytime the ground isn't broken up or filled with water.

 

 

Have you watched my link ? Art Nalls quite clearly takes off from grass, it doesn't get stuck, yet ours does. Even warbirds take a pounding when attempting grass takeoffs, when they did operate from airFIELDs in WW2.

 

 

It doesn't seem too outlandish for me to ask that the Harrier's gear withstand grass just a lil better, when quite clearly other aircraft can in the sim.

Yes, I watched your video. Apparently I disagree with your definition of practical.

I guess.

Launching a jet with a gross weight of over 30,000 pounds less 9,000 a fuel which can be quickly obtained is pretty practical to me. If you want to be less reliant on tankers carry less. You can still launch a jet with full fuel and ordinance ok the wings. But it's a zero sum game. Pick fuel or ordinance, but seeing as I can get fuel from a tanker I pick ordinance.

And concerning the grass field. You're showing a video of an airshow. Which is not insignificant, I'll give you that. But I doubt that jet even had a full fuel load. And no ordinance. It's a neat video, proof of concept at best. But it's a gimmick, that's all airshows are, are fancy gimmicks.

Combat loaded harriers operating from improvised fields used roads, mats and grates. I still just don't see what you're asking from Razbam.

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I dunno, I've found the fire brigade mission with the FARP there the best mission I've played in all of DCS. I've also used heli farps a fair amount in my homemade missions.

Ive used the Helo FARPs too with the harrier loaded to about 26,000 - 28,000 and it takes off ok.... just need to nurse it up to speed. I back the jet up to one side of the pad (before refuel/rearm) and get a small running start as well.

Personally I would think a combat jet loaded with weps would not be able to perform a STOL on grass unless it was compacted a lot

Things to consider: A1-AV8BB-NFM−000, page 11-40 to 11-46 (circa 2011)

-- The Pegasus engine also has the ability to damage surfaces that are not suitable. If the ground is granular a crater will form immediately starting at the stagnation point. If unprepared surfaces are used, such as grass, the jets have a tendency to dry the covering causing it to lose its cohesion and break up. This can occur in as little as a few seconds over the same spot and thus requires the pilot to keep the aircraft and exhaust from residing over the same spot. For this reason VTOs or VLs should never be attempted over unprepared natural ground, no matter how firm and stable the surface appears. True vertical take−offs and landings always require a prepared surface (mat or concrete pavement).

 

-- V/STOL aircraft are particularly adept at creating their own FOD and then ingesting it. FOD can cover a wide range of effects ranging from covering aircraft with dirt and dust to severe damage to the airframe and engine possibly resulting in failure and catastrophic destruction to the aircraft as well as possible death or injury to the pilot. The most FOD−sensitive component of the aircraft is the engine. The Pegasus engine is inherently capable of dealing with ingested debris better than smaller engines in conventional fighters and has been qualified to withstand impact of a 1 pound bird at 600 knots when running at 97 percent Nf. If engine damage due to FOD is suspected airborne a pilot should perform the Engine Mechanical Failure/Engine Vibration emergency procedures. In most cases FOD is not noticed until post flight inspection by the pilot or maintenance personnel. Despite the ability of the Pegasus to withstand FOD, it is highly susceptible to FOD due to the fact that the Harrier in V/STOL operations tends to disturb more surface debris than conventional aircraft. The chance of FOD ingestion is dependent to a great degree on the observance of correct operating procedures.

 

--AM−2 aluminum mats can be used for V/STOL operations if prepared properly. The edges of the mats should be sealed and anchored at the edges. If the aircraft’s exhaust sheet crosses the edge of a mat at a low hover height and the mat is not anchored or sealed properly the mat and entire pad can become airborne. The same applies for the connections between mat sections. AM−2 mats should always have their edges properly sealed and should be securely staked to the ground. Never rely on weight alone to hold down a pad. The aircraft should never cross the pad at less than 50 feet to preclude the jet sheets from lifting the surface at the edges. Debris may be raised at these heights and blown onto the pad or into the intakes and as such the Harrier should not perform a decelerating transition over a surface where debris may get lifted or disturbed below 150 feet. Harriers should also avoid performing V/STOL operations over manhole covers or other objects that may be picked up by the jet sheets. Concrete pads are normally segmented slabs to allow for expansion. The joints of these slabs can contain loose debris and if unsealed may allow for the pressure from the engine exhaust to lift the slabs. Any debris contained in these joints may also be blown out violently and may cause FOD. These joints must be sealed continuously otherwise the jet can penetrate even a small slot. If a gap is present the sealant may also be blown out and into the air by the aircraft. It is for this reason that Harrier pilots should ensure that vertical takeoff and landing areas are free from FOD, slots in pavements are free from loose debris and are properly and continuously sealed. The seal should extend the full slot depth and should not be cracked

or gapped.

On 1/28/2019 at 4:42 PM, SUNTSAG said:

Difficult Yes...Impossible No....

 

 

I know its late, but i'm really interested in how you did this

last time i tried this (monday) i was able to land and take off from a grass field next to a road.

(dont try to go fast though)

On 6/26/2021 at 8:03 AM, gregfp66 said:

I know its late, but i'm really interested in how you did this

Not sure if it is working properly in 2.7 ... I remember testing it in 2.5.6 and it did work, if your were able to find flat terrain long enough. Of course, the AI cannot use it.