The Viggen Pitch Trim is Ridiculous

I picked up the plane yesterday and up to this point have not been able to get the pitch trim to work.

I have done the following:

Checked and re-checked the trim assignments and they are fine. I have tried assigning the pitch trim to the Warthog thumb switch along with the keyboard with zero luck.

Also, I have tried cycling the trim circuit breaker, flipping all the switches on the emergency trim switch panel and re-centering them followed by pulling the trim circuit breaker in and out again with zero luck.

Yes, I have held the trim switch down for over a minute with zero movement on the trim needle..... in either direction

Am I missing something here or is the darned plane broke?

Thanks

 

Am I missing something here or is the darned plane broke?

 

Thanks

It's been... inconsistent for me at times when i just got the aircraft, I really don't know what has changed. Try trimming after 'whiping the controls' like you would with a fly-by-wire; :joystick: max out every axis on your stick and then apply the trim.

Let me know how it goes!

I had a similar issue a month ago. For some reason it just disappeared and it works fine again.

Many users have similar experiences. For most, it works though.

It works fine for me 100% of the time, On the X-55 joystick I have it assigned on the H2 small stick and when I need to trim just hold it down or up and it trims. Its not fast trimming hence having to holding it down, pressing buttons does nothing.

I just went through a complete uninstall and re-install, including the removal of the control config for the Viggen. After re-installation, I completed the control mapping again and decided to try instant action. The trim works as it should during an instant action mission with the pitch trim needle moving fairly quick and smooth.

However, if I go back and try a cold start there is no way for me to get the pitch trim function working (aileron trim works fine) so something is quirky and according to other posts I have come across has been for a while.

The issue appears to be a hit or miss with some folks having an issue and others not. In fact, Zabuza mentioned that he also had the problem and for some unknown reason the issue disappeared.

Update: I went into the mission editor and had the aircraft start at the runway and ready for takeoff: the pitch trim works. Maybe there is something I am missing in pre-flight and startup?

Maybe some legacy missions must be resaved again?

Maybe some legacy missions must be resaved again?

I tried creating a mission then saving along with starting with a cold start: no luck on pitch trim.

Also, I entered an aerobatic server earlier and started with one of the Viggens that were already airborne: the pitch trim worked fine.

If any flight begins on the ground with a cold start, I will not be able to trim the ac in the pitch axis.

That makes more sense.

Thanks for the research

I've similar issues in 2.5. Trim is working, but it is extreeeeeeemly slow. I have to keep it pressed for about 30 seconds for take off trim (~7°). I'm using the trim hat on the WH HOTAS and I'm only doing cold starts. Haven't tested hot starts.

In 1.5.8 the trim was inconsistent, sometimes it worked as it should and sometimes it was very slow.

the trim was usually at fault with fps, if you had good fps the trim would work fast, slow fps slow trim

I've similar issues in 2.5. Trim is working, but it is extreeeeeeemly slow. I have to keep it pressed for about 30 seconds for take off trim (~7°). I'm using the trim hat on the WH HOTAS and I'm only doing cold starts. Haven't tested hot starts.

 

In 1.5.8 the trim was inconsistent, sometimes it worked as it should and sometimes it was very slow.

You mean -3 degrees, right?

You mean -3 degrees, right?

Maybe, I'm not sure to be honest. :music_whistling:

But regardless of the actual number, it takes ages to get there!

I've similar issues in 2.5. Trim is working, but it is extreeeeeeemly slow. I have to keep it pressed for about 30 seconds for take off trim (~7°). I'm using the trim hat on the WH HOTAS and I'm only doing cold starts. Haven't tested hot starts.

 

In 1.5.8 the trim was inconsistent, sometimes it worked as it should and sometimes it was very slow.

Thanks..

I could hold the trim switch down for 30 days and the pitch trim would not work. At one point, I zoomed in to the pitch trim gauge and watched it for 2 min while holding the switch and nothing:joystick:

I can assure you guys that the pitch trim isn't slow..... it just doesn't work

Lastly, I went ahead and put in for a refund on the Viggen: problem solved sorta:huh:

...

All I can now say is I've tried missions both pre-last patch and post-, both trim out fine, tried it just now.

Very sorry to hear you're going to return this magnificent plane. I'll have to admit it's currently very buggy in 2.5 OB for me, but that's to be expected from a beta. Is this also the version you are using?

it also as I said is fps dependant, it works ok, well it don't matter if you gonna refund, that's your choice, but try with low settings and you will se what I mean

I am indeed using the 2.5 beta which is what everyone else appears to be running also.

When you mention fps dependent, are you saying that frame rates can cause the pitch trim to either work or not work? I do not have any frame rate issues running on high settings. In fact, the only issues I have are the giant lag spikes on multiplayer servers: single player flying runs like glass.

Btw, I do appreciate all of the input with this matter as I really do enjoy flying the plane.....when the trim works:beer:

Thanks

ages ago in a galaxy far far away.....there was a post or 12 about the same thing, it has always been a bit of a problem sometimes, but I do recall they were not making the trim fps dependent now,,,but, it was said I think and agreed the original problem was made worse by poor frame rate, if you had lightening fast pc it was fine, the lower down you went the slower the fps and indeed trim.

now mine isn't quick, pc or trim, but it works well now for me, or at least I think it works like it should, around 6-7 seconds to trim up for take off. doing this on the round means less messing in the air. also D.S set to off, hope it can work for you, she is a great bird to fly

At least for me, it appears to be fixed. I had exactly the same problem, it was taking ages to take off trim, but now it's about 2 secs.

Another thing that helped me was to delete POV mappings on the trimmer hat on my Warthog. The trim doubles as POV so it has also down - right / down left directions which I noticed I accidentally pressed when trimming down (causing trim to stop).

it also as I said is fps dependant, it works ok, well it don't matter if you gonna refund, that's your choice, but try with low settings and you will se what I mean

That might make sense. IIRC the Viggen trim is special as that its speed of change depends on how long the trim switch is beeing pressed. So, while in all other aircraft in DCS currently, the speed of trim change is the same regardless how long you keep the trim button pressed, it starts slow in the viggen and gets faster the longer you keep the button pressed. It very much seems like the trim function in the code is checking the time between trim inputs and if multiple trim inputs are very close together (when the button is beeing held), then it accelerates the trim rate, but if the frame rate is bad, then the time between the inputs increases and the trim speed is not beeing accelerated.

That's what it looks like to me. If this is true, then something needs to be done about it as this is a real problem.

Pitch trim is slow and works. If it doesn't work, then something may be wrong with your game. Try repairing it.

The game repair was already done with zero changes in pitch trim functionality.

Pitch trim works when starting in the air

Pitch trim works when starting on the runway with the engines running

Pitch trim works in instant action scenarios

Pitch trim works in multiplayer when starting in the air

Pitch trim works on all other aircraft

Aileron and Rudder trim work just fine

Apparently, this is a known problem for some folks

Pitch trim does not work when performing a cold start

I have ran around in circles jumping up and down performing a Viggen pitch trim dance.......nothing

I have banged my head into the keyboard.......nothing

I am having a hard time believing my game is broken:D However, my keyboard might need some repairs...

I'd like to emphasis again, it's only for some.

My cold start works just fine. But thanks for your investigation, surely helpful for the developer.

I decided to perform another test on a multiplayer server.

I launched the aircraft from an airborne starting point and the trim functioned just fine.

So, I flew a while and landed at which time I did a simple engine shutdown and engine restart. After re-starting the engine, the pitch trim was again broken. I even tried cycling the trim circuit breaker and nothing changed.

The only conclusion I can come up with is the aircraft is broken..for me anyway.

Zabuza, I completely agree with you that it appears to be a crapshoot if you encounter the issue or not.

So, if the developer is paying attention to this, please take some time away from the F-14 and fix the Viggen:joystick:

I had similar issues during cold starts. The red flag campaign briefing called for 3 degrees up with external tank. but after holding my HOTAS trim switch for a few seconds there's no visible movement, so I gave up. However, notwithstanding a late rotation and alpha warning I was able to fly okay. The trim is just painfully slow. I didn't bother time check if the indicator actually moved in flight.

Another earlier thread said viggen trim is slow in VR. I disabled VR yesterday and found the trim to be quick and even coarse (one press of the switch cause too much trim change). I didn't run a controlled experiment to single out the variables but at least can report the trim works albeit inconsistently.

They seem to be investigating into the issue. Don't know if this was there before, but today I noticed a lot of output like this in the dcs.log file when I trim the aircraft :)

2018-03-21 19:49:32.043 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.043 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.024000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.059 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.059 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.036000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.070 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.070 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.048000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.084 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.085 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.060000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.096 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.096 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.066000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.112 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.112 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.078000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.124 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.124 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.090000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.139 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.140 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.102000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.152 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.152 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.108000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.166 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.166 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.120000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.176 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.176 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.132000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.191 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.191 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.144000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.202 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.202 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.156000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.216 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.216 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.168000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.228 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.228 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.174000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.240 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: timer 0.000000
2018-03-21 19:49:32.240 INFO    Sources\Flightmodel\FlightControls.cpp: Trimstickheldtime 0.192000

They seem to be investigating into the issue. Don't know if this was there before, but today I noticed a lot of output like this in the dcs.log file when I trim the aircraft :)

Great observation, thanks! I'm hoping for the best :)