Future F-16 variations possible?

Hi there,

I would like to discuss the possibilities of future F-16 variants. Finally the F-16C is on our doorstep and i am very happy about it. With this F-16C Coming to DCS, a huge dream of me is coming true. My question is: Would Eagle Dynamics consider adding different F-16 variations to the Simulation Platform DCS if the upcoming F-16C Block 50 variant is well received? And if yes, what kind of variants would you love to see? Do not get me wrong i am verry happy that we get at least one F-16 variant and a good one too, but this topic is for a "what if" scenario.

One variant i would love to see is the Israeli F-16I with or without CFTs:

Israeli F-16 History:

The F-16's first air-to-air combat success was achieved by the Israeli Air Force (IAF) over the Bekaa Valley on 28 April 1981, against a Syrian Mi-8 helicopter, which was downed with cannon fire. On 7 June 1981, eight Israeli F-16s, escorted by six F-15s, executed Operation Opera, their first employment in a significant air-to-ground operation. This raid severely damaged Osirak, an Iraqi nuclear reactor under construction near Baghdad, to prevent the regime of Saddam Hussein from using the reactor for the creation of nuclear weapons.

 

The following year, during the 1982 Lebanon War Israeli F-16s engaged Syrian aircraft in one of the largest air battles involving jet aircraft, which began on 9 June and continued for two more days. Israeli Air Force F-16s were credited with 44 air-to-air kills during the conflict.

 

In January 2000, Israel completed a purchase of 102 new F-16I aircraft in a deal totaling $4.5 billion. F-16s were also used in their ground-attack role for strikes against targets in Lebanon. IAF F-16s participated in the 2006 Lebanon War and the 2008–09 Gaza War. During and after the 2006 Lebanon war, IAF F-16s shot down Iranian-made UAVs launched by Hezbollah, using Rafael Python 5 air-to-air missiles.

 

On 10 February 2018, an Israeli Air Force F-16I was shot down in northern Israel when it was hit by a relatively old model S-200 (NATO name SA-5 Gammon) surface-to-air missile of the Syrian Air Defense Force. The pilot and navigator ejected safely in Israeli territory. The F-16I was part of a bombing mission against Syrian and Iranian targets around Damascus after an Iranian drone entered Israeli air space and was shot down. An Israel Air Force investigation determined on 27 February 2018 that the loss was due to pilot error since the IAF determined the air crew did not adequately defend themselves.

Israeli Air Force F-16A Netz 107 with 6.5 kill marks of other aircraft and one kill mark of an Iraqi nuclear reactor, a world record for an F-16

An Israeli F-16I (Block 52) with conformal fuel tanks (CFTs), internal/integrated Electronic countermeasures, and other external stores during a Red Flag exercise at Nellis AFB, NV, July 2009

The F-16I "Sufa" ("STORM")

The F-16I is a two-seat variant of the Block 52 developed for the Israeli Defense Force – Air Force (IDF/AF). Israel issued a requirement in September 1997 and selected the F-16 in preference to the F-15I in July 1999. An initial "Peace Marble V" contract was signed on 14 January 2000 with a follow-on contract signed on 19 December 2001, for a total procurement of 102 aircraft. The F-16I, which is called Sufa (Storm) by the IDF/AF, first flew on 23 December 2003, and deliveries to the IDF/AF began on 19 February 2004. The F-16I has an estimated unit cost of approximately US$70 million (2006).

 

One major deviation of the F-16I from the Block 52 is that approximately 50% of the avionics were replaced by Israeli-developed avionics, such as the Israeli Aerial Towed Decoy replacing the ALE-50 and autonomous aerial combat maneuvering instrumentation, which enables training exercises to be conducted without dependence on ground instrumentation. Elbit Systems produced the aircraft's helmet-mounted sight, head-up display (HUD), mission and presentation computers, and digital map display. Furthermore, the F-16I can employ Rafael's Python 5 infrared-guided air-to-air missile, and often uses Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)'s removable conformal fuel tanks (CFT) for extended range. Key American-sourced systems include the F100-PW-229 turbofan engine, which offers commonality with the IDF/AF's F-15Is, and the APG-68(V)9 radar.

This F-16 variant would introduce more variations of weapons and systems. Additionally it would add another multicrew aircraft to the Simulations Platform DCS.

What do you fellow virtual Pilots think, what variation would you love to see in DCS? Let us know.

Kind regards, MKev

I’d like to see the two seater version, they could possibly partner with heatblur and use jester and what not. Possibly the earlier versions as well, I know we aren’t going to get any more advanced than this because of government laws and what not. Hopefully they could team with heatblur in the future.

yeah a two seat variant would be a very nice addition. :)

The Sufa is almost certainly way beyond the public available info sphere to be done properly.

A F-16 Block 30 or Block 40 would likely be a case of being so close to a Block 50 that fundamentally they'd be redundant.

The F-16A is a good option, however I don't think people would particularly enjoy the severe limitations in terms of stores that would come with it.

I believe ED has already stated that the one that they are doing is the only one they are planning on building.

Unreal. The Block 50 C isn't even in early access, and folk are asking about other variants.

The variants that I would like to see besides the block 50, are the block 52 and the Israeli F-16I but I don't think it will be possible to do the second pilot

Unreal. The Block 50 C isn't even in early access, and folk are asking about other variants.

Like i mentioned earlier:

. . .

Do not get me wrong i am verry happy that we get at least one F-16 variant and a good one too, but this topic is for a "what if" scenario.

 

One variant i would love to see is the Israeli F-16I with or without CFTs:

. . .

EDITED:

This is just a what if scenario. Because of the F/A-18 tech, ED is possible to make the F-16C that quick. The Tornado was informally announced, and people start talking about variations and future possibilities because of the multicrew tech introduced into the game. There was a question on Heatblur section recently regarding F-14D and if it might be possible to see this variant in the future:

We're focused on getting the A & B perfect first; but there's no lack of willpower to continue our Tomcat journey if the product is received well! :)

Asking for possible future variations of aircraft, even if the first one is not released or done yet is legit.

All i ever wanted was a block 50/52 model in DCS. I have no point to complain and this topic is no complain topic it is a what if topic. ED will gain more experience and new tech from developing the upcoming F-16C Block 50. The possibilities for future variants in future scenarios is endless. I am not suggesting a brand new Block 60 or newer (F-16V Blk.70/72) model from 2018. There are a lot variants from 1998 up to 2007/2008.

And if ED will not make other variants, no problem. But no one can tell what is up for grasp in 5-10 years from now. Playing Persian Gulf or future Lybia Egypt scenarios without variations of F-16I (even old ones) or the Egypt models is hard to explain.

regards, MKev

A lil addition: In my head i see a bright future for DCS.

Dynamic Campaign (not this script bullshit we have now) where OPFOR AI and BLUFOR AI is simulating a battle and provides defences, resupply of front stationed units and deploys defences and offences over the map, oriented by borders and frontlines. All the player does, is calling in for duty in one of BLUFOR or OPFOR squadrons. There is a other well known simulator that introduced this kind of dynamic campaign in the 90's. And it works well up to today. We have 2019 now and I see a future where DCS is having at least the same capabilities or even better. Where the Player or a Clan, Virtual Fighter Wing or what ever decides and plans missions for the AI that plans out the war and has the ability to choose Squadron A with Block 40s - F-16, or Unit B with block 32's, or unit C with block 50s etc. Maybe we have several F-18 variants in the Future, CVA Squadron with F-18E/F etc. etc.

These Campaigns run for Weeks. You have to plan resupply missions. You have to move units From A to B where a flight can take more than 1-2 hours because of map size and you have to refuel in air to make the trip. When u dont do such flights, Airbase XYZ has no new aircraft to restock because they are still back at home. When these resupply missions are done, you can start planning additional SEAD, CAP, CAS etc. missions. I see B-52 or similar controlled by players in multicrew. I see player piloted C-130 Gunships. I see AWACS aircraft controlled by human pilots. I can keep going and going . . .

Thats a dream i have. A bright future for Eagle Dynamics and their baby: D C S

The Sufa is almost certainly way beyond the public available info sphere to be done properly.

 

A F-16 Block 30 or Block 40 would likely be a case of being so close to a Block 50 that fundamentally they'd be redundant.

 

The F-16A is a good option, however I don't think people would particularly enjoy the severe limitations in terms of stores that would come with it.

I would actually be more interested in a F-16A then i am in the F-16C.

And if they go with a F-16A Block 15 OCU it would still be capable enough

(AGM-65s and Aim-120s etc) while still being able to easily simulate non OCU variants by just limiting weapon options.

I just prefer the cold war era timeframe and i really like the F-16A cockpit

so as is i dont even know if i will get the F-16C =P

but a F-16A (Or even a F-16C Block 25) would make me pre-order right away.

I would pay for more variants in the future, different blocks, A version, etc.

I would pay for more variants in the future, different blocks, A version, etc.

me TOO!!!!:thumbup:

I'd absolutely pay for different versions of the F-16, maybe not the full 80 bucks per version though.

And if I could choose I'd go for an -AM with drag chute.

Guys, lets just let ED finish ONE variant!! It doesn't matter which one it is as long as it's actually complete, instead of dragging on for ages like the F/A-18C.

ED are a talented buch of guys but they're biting off much more than they can chew. I know they need the money, but lets not have more un-finished modules floating around for years.

Leave 'em alone to produce ONE variant of the F-16. It doesn't matter which one!!!

The F-16 would be a great module, and everyone knows that everyone else wants one (including myself.) But personally, I'd prefer it if they'd finish the F/A-18 first, such as, you know... a *targeting pod*, instead of farting around with yet another new plane that'll never get finished for years!

AD

Just throwing my .02 in; for sure, i think the right direction would be bringing out older variants in the future, or maybe more unique variants with different capabilities. They could either sell them as standalone modules, upgrades to the owners of the viper we are getting, or maybe it could be both, so someone who does not have the f-16 in the future can pick which one they want, then add on the other variant later.

I also agree on getting 2 seater variants, I haven't tried multicrew yet but on paper it sounds amazing, and I like the idea of having the opportunity to try it in other aircraft down the line

Guys, lets just let ED finish ONE variant!! It doesn't matter which one it is as long as it's actually complete, instead of dragging on for ages like the F/A-18C.

It's called feedback. Customers writing posts on potential ideas and suggestions will not make ED's progress on the F-16CM any slower.

Just throwing my .02 in; for sure, i think the right direction would be bringing out older variants in the future, or maybe more unique variants with different capabilities. They could either sell them as standalone modules, upgrades to the owners of the viper we are getting, or maybe it could be both, so someone who does not have the f-16 in the future can pick which one they want, then add on the other variant later.

 

I also agree on getting 2 seater variants, I haven't tried multicrew yet but on paper it sounds amazing, and I like the idea of having the opportunity to try it in other aircraft down the line

My best friend gifted me the F-14 Tomcat a week ago. Because of a accident i have no work atm and could not afford it. Not being able to buy a module i waited to get for so long made me sad. We are flying the tomcat since we have it in multicrew and i can tell you it is by far the best experience i ever had in D C S. It is a bit to learn at the beginning, but who knows to fly a A-10C or KA-50 and grasps systems quick, gets the hang of it reasonably fast. You also have a nice manual where u can look things up if u need info on something. But there is no need to read every single of those 350+ pages. Tomcat is well designed and intuitive in my opinion. The only thing that makes me nuts is, that i did not figure out how to accelerate the IFF procedure. Takes some time to identify one blip after another.

EDIT / Update: There are many great modules in DCS. But i must admit that in my eyes the F-14B is the Benchmark atm. The shaking, the wings bending under G-Load, and those vortexes /air turbulence effects behind other planes, tanker or even the phoenix missile is something i did not experience in any other of my modules. I hope ED will add some of these effects to the upcoming F-16 module. It makes the feeling of flight and the behaviour of the aircraft more authentic if u understand what i try to say.

So i totally agree, a two-seat variation upgrade option later after the F-16 release would be AWESOME !

kind regards, MKev

It's threads like this which have kept me entertained over the many years. Bunch of children whining over what they can't have before the product has even arrived. I WANT ice cream!! Do you not think ED have some restrictions on what blk they develop? Do you think ED can just choose whatever blk they want? THINK about it!!

My best friend gifted me the F-14 Tomcat a week ago. Because of a accident i have no work atm and could not afford it. Not being able to buy a module i waited to get for so long made me sad. We are flying the tomcat since we have it in multicrew and i can tell you it is by far the best experience i ever had in D C S. It is a bit to learn at the beginning, but who knows to fly a A-10C or KA-50 and grasps systems quick, gets the hang of it reasonably fast. You also have a nice manual where u can look things up if u need info on something. But there is no need to read every single of those 350+ pages. Tomcat is well designed and intuitive in my opinion. The only thing that makes me nuts is, that i did not figure out how to accelerate the IFF procedure. Takes some time to identify one blip after another.

 

EDIT / Update: There are many great modules in DCS. But i must admit that in my eyes the F-14B is the Benchmark atm. The shaking, the wings bending under G-Load, and those vortexes /air turbulence effects behind other planes, tanker or even the phoenix missile is something i did not experience in any other of my modules. I hope ED will add some of these effects to the upcoming F-16 module. It makes the feeling of flight and the behaviour of the aircraft more authentic if u understand what i try to say.

 

So i totally agree, a two-seat variation upgrade option later after the F-16 release would be AWESOME !

 

kind regards, MKev

This sounds fantastic! In the same boat, cant really afford to pick up the tomcat and blew what I could on the viper because I HAD to have it, but someday I hope to grab the cat and experience it.

Anyway, I think multicrew is fast becoming a hot feature in DCS. Not every jet needs it, but those that do seem to be pretty popular now.

Moving on, I threw a thread out there asking about the viability of maybe a block 52 variant...same year and capabilities...I just like the idea of having the variety to choose different engines essentially

The Tornado is announced

Where did you get that from? Did I miss an announcement somewhere?

Where did you get that from? Did I miss an announcement somewhere?

I'm positive he meant Tomcat.

It would be nice but I can pretty much guarantee they won't do it.

Where did you get that from? Did I miss an announcement somewhere?

I'm positive he meant Tomcat.

thanks for pointing me on my last post. i corrected that:

EDITED:

 

This is just a what if scenario. Because of the F/A-18 tech, ED is possible to make the F-16C that quick. The Tornado was informally announced, and people start . . .

Panavia Tornado was informally announced 3 years ago and all that is known is, that it is worked on by one or two 3rd party developers. Even a Mesh model was done back in the day and another developer studio gave information that they are into it:

RAZBAM:

Polychop:

Hi,

ok, first this topic here states 3rd Aannounced helicopter speculations.

Panavia Tornado family is not a helicopter, otherwise the officials I talked to of the company would have told me that it is a VTOL and well, anyhting about the Tornado will be stated in a different topic.

I can tell you here, which I will state again soon, that I have my contacts and surely talk to the right people for a Tornado product.

As I can not see anybody doing the tornado, and knowing from official side about license conditions, that we are on a good track.

Let us keep this topic to the helo specualtions.

 

Cheers

Sven

 

edit: we will give an update soon, just need to check with Olli and Pat what we want to show.

I guess if we agree on some certain news you guys might be blown away on what we work on.

Just to state things clearly beforehand, we will try to only make official claims on modules if we are getting the license form the planecompanies, or if it looks super promising.

Do to the fact that I am handelling the license talks right now, I do also know if other companies hold licenses for certain products or not. I am not revealing about other 3rd parties but I can tell you, I have talked to all the big players in the bussiness and have a good picture of what is going on

QuiGON made conclusions on the wishlist forum and the rest is history:

A Tornado in DCS would be my biggest dream come true (although I would prefer a german Tornado :P). I'm sure this will happen in the next few years. The questions are just "when exactly?" and "by whom?".

Originally VEAO was planning on making it, but as everyone knows, they have stopped all their future developments for DCS. RAZBAM and Polychop have showed interest in making the Tornado as well:

 

Polychop said they are in contact with Panavia, the manufacturing company of the Tornado: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=155185

RAZBAM said they are already working on one and presented a very early screenshot of the 3D mesh: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173611

 

Both are still uncertain and in the end we might get a Tornado from another side: Heatblur. The Tornado seems to fit their plans for future modules pretty well, so this is another place to keep an eye on for a Tornado: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=140135

 

So, I'm sure we will see a DCS Tornado at some point. :thumbup:

My conclusions: Tornado is informally announced and additional developers have stated that they are working on it or at least are in preperation. Pointing back on my original post in this topic i wanted to state that there was the info that the Tornado is coming and since then people are talking about variations and models of the Panavia Tornado.

kind regards, MKev

I would actually be more interested in a F-16A then i am in the F-16C.

I also would love to see the A model for cold war era missions.

However as I see it itˋs rather unlikely that ED will invest into an A variant, as it is a vastly different aircraft and would still require a lot of development time, even if the Block 50 is fully implemented. There would probably be some people like us that would happily pay the full price for this, but I guess the majority of the customers out there would rather have an entirely different aircraft to invest their money in after the Block 50.

I'll be happy with updated F-16C/D AI models which has been on the list for a while along with several others (B-52H, B-1B etc)