Cold War 1947 - 1991

DCS simply lacking any specific cold war era assets. if you would have more experience in mission design you would see that. Just try and check and do a setup for any war since vietnam. We simply don't have assets for that, either weapons nor airframes.

 

Compromise is inevitable. The only thing that can be adjusted is gameplay and that is what people above are talking about.

 

Also trying to be "alpha" here and jumping on Rossmum cuz he is providing arguments for more suitable environment for MiG-19 by saying you gave hell in MiG-19 consider providing us with tacviews then where such hell happened when you was piloting MiG-19, I'm sure everyone here would be interested to see. Or use less toxic approach in response imho

 

For summary I would say that era restirction is simply not possible, if you try to do really specific era. You will end up with a single plane and single weapon and no opponents. The only non late modern era that can be used is korean war and even then it has compromises, there are no vehicles for it there are no other planes that were widely used in it from US side.

 

therefore people who knows that by default because they approached DCS from this side and already saw that propose to at least try different gameplay setups. Gameplay depends on several things, missiles as tools are one of those things. IF you have R-13M vs AIM-9P you have one setup. If you have AIM-9P5 vs R-60M you have different approach. This is one of the manipulations that can be done. Other things that can be changed are mission design and Area distances in missions and also ground environment. We simply don't have even ground assets to restrict to let's say only 60-s. You need SAMs you need IFVs etc. and they are all from different eras.

 

What I would point as next activity is testing all missiles from relevant modules first, then looking at data brains can spark some ideas.

LazzySeal, no one is trying to be Alpha here, we are just sharing experiences.. not sure why you are so sensitive on this subject?

You are right that the missiles should be matched up, and I would advice as well to only have rear aspect missiles on the server. But when I see that the 21’s have 260 R60M’s at startup and the Viggen only has 50 Rb74’s (aim9L) then something is not right.

You either go rear aspect missiles only, or you stick to an even amount of missiles with all aspect capabilities.. and definitely not giving one plane just enough for a few engagements, and then being stuck with a ton of rear aspect missiles (RB24J which is Aim9P3).

I am expressly bad at the MiG-19, which doesn't help in my case, but the biggest problem with its viability is the fact that you have to approach people from the rear or somehow slip through the merge unseen. With no flares, poor throttle response (even worse than the 21), and no all-aspect capability of your own, it's as one sided as when blue had only the AIM-9P while red had R-60s and could go into head-on merges with impunity. Of course we could all just go fly 21s instead, but those slots are limited in number and it would be nice to see both MiGs seeing more use, rather than 19s only appearing occasionally or when the 21 slots fill.

 

I'm not necessarily saying we need weapon restrictions back across all missions, considering I originally argued to get them removed exactly because I knew how badly it was limiting blue as I won every head-on merge with the R-60. However, a few missions that change things up - particularly Middle Eastern or Warsaw Pact based ones - would be interesting, and force people to rely on more than just who spots the other guy first. Most of those nations either didn't receive R-60s at all, received very limited numbers of them, or received them later. More than a few weeks into a shooting war, a lot of the more minor countries would likely have used up their entire stock and need to fall back on older weapons.

 

As fun as the more modern stuff is, there is also the case of BK90s in particular - the BK90 is absolutely not period-correct, and what's more, if you release it from the right altitude at the right speed, you can get some absolutely obscene range out of it. Red has no counterpart, the closest thing they have to a standoff weapon is the Kh-25 and 29, which require you to get much closer to the target and guide the weapon all the way in.

 

I don't think weapons or airframes should be considered against the time period in question - I think both should be. As for the Ka-50, I expect that will probably go when the Mi-24 arrives, but until then removing it would leave red without a truly anti-tank capable helicopter as we can't strap ATGMs to our Mi-8s.

You got some good points here, and I agree with you that the BK90 is definitely from the later stages of the cold war era.. and definitely not essential for any Viggen operations, was just fun to try out occasionally.

I think going rear aspect could become interesting for the fighters, but I’m not sure how the strikers would like that. The SU25 has the R60M and A10 the 9M. Someone mentioned a page or two back, that a strike operation should always be accompanied by fighters. This would solve the missile free strikers issue.

ps. Fly the Mig19 in the speed bracket of not slower than 650km/h and max 800km/h. This is prime for turn fighting. And if you can, dont bring fuel tanks with, you got ton of fuel with you anyway.

[DEVILS] NELLUS

The weapons' restrictions were always part of the server. At some point I go back to that and keep it that way for a while. Nothing new. The only issue with it is strikers being defenceless, but my idea was as some of you have mentioned already to get players on comms for that matter and ask for escort.

The weapons' restrictions will be back soon.

If someone could provide any data regarding the AG guided and unguided weapons of the Blue aircraft I'd very much appreciate it. Focus on weapons of the 70's and maybe early 80's as most missions take place in that period of time.

EDIT:

The mission The Desert Has Eyes will be online tonight and it will have rear aspect missiles only among other AG weapons' restrictions. Su-25's and A-10A's will therefore have no AA missiles.

The weapons' restrictions were always part of the server. At some point I go back to that and keep it that way for a while. Nothing new. The only issue with it is strikers being defenceless, but my idea was as some of you have mentioned already to get players on comms for that matter and ask for escort.

The weapons' restrictions will be back soon.

 

 

If someone could provide any data regarding the AG guided and unguided weapons of the Blue aircraft I'd very much appreciate it. Focus on weapons of the 70's and maybe early 80's as most missions take place in that period of time.

 

 

EDIT:

The mission The Desert Has Eyes will be online tonight and it will have rear aspect missiles only among other AG weapons' restrictions. Su-25's and A-10A's will therefore have no AA missiles.

I think that you are on the right path Alpenwolf, rear aspect, CAP and favorable conditions for the Hilos is a great recipe.

Below is some info about the AGM65:

In July 1971, the USAF and Hughes signed a $69.9 million contract, first of which was delivered in 1972. Although early operational results were favorable, military planners predicted that the Maverick would fare less successfully in the hazy conditions of Central Europe, where it would have been used against Warsaw Pact forces. As such, development of the AGM-65B "Scene Magnified" version began in 1975 before it was delivered during the late 1970s. When production of the AGM-65A/B was ended in 1978.

Gameplay depends on several things, missiles as tools are one of those things. IF you have R-13M vs AIM-9P you have one setup. If you have AIM-9P5 vs R-60M you have different approach.

I agree here, the R13M vs Aim-9P / RB24J is a logical balance.

The 21 can carry 6 missiles compared to F5 and Viggens which can only carry x2 sidewinders.

I agree here, the R13M vs Aim-9P / RB24J is a logical balance.

 

The 21 can carry 6 missiles compared to F5 and Viggens which can only carry x2 sidewinders.

Six in case of double pylon but if you reduce to R-13M1 or R-3S its four. Four R-13M1s are however heavy and draggy as hell. I normally take four R-60s and fuel tank.

ALpenwolf, can you consider adding MLRSs to more missions in rotations? It would be greatly appretiated :) I see some peppering of heli gameplay in this request :)

ALpenwolf, can you consider adding MLRSs to more missions in rotations? It would be greatly appretiated :) I see some peppering of heli gameplay in this request :)

I'd doing that already, and only if it fits in the scenario of that particular mission.

The server was packed tonight, and for a good reason. Great work with the rear aspect missiles!!

This should be the way forward as you mentioned on the sim chat.

[DEVILS] NELLUS

Some feed back from the team:

We all had some issues with the Rb24, it didn't want to lock and was totally unreliable. I think Heatblure have forgotten about it in their updates.

RB24J work as it should. Extremely sensitive to flares so it took a bit of work and luck to get one on target. The missile amount needs to be increased, but I’m sure you already have that planned.

The Rb 24 being unreliable shouldn't be a surprise, as the GAR-8/R-3S are similarly unreliable.

As for the Rb 75 - the thing is like a wake homing torpedo. On The Desert Has Eyes the other day, someone fired one at another Viggen (presumably mistaking it for a 21 somehow) and not only did it track easily and score a direct hit, but it actually even lofted.

Sure hope HB get to fixing the Viggen once the 14A is out, because between the unshakeable air to air Mavs and its ability to continue fighting and firing missiles without wings, it's turning into a serious meme machine.

The Rb 24 being unreliable shouldn't be a surprise, as the GAR-8/R-3S are similarly unreliable.

 

As for the Rb 75 - the thing is like a wake homing torpedo. On The Desert Has Eyes the other day, someone fired one at another Viggen (presumably mistaking it for a 21 somehow) and not only did it track easily and score a direct hit, but it actually even lofted.

 

Sure hope HB get to fixing the Viggen once the 14A is out, because between the unshakeable air to air Mavs and its ability to continue fighting and firing missiles without wings, it's turning into a serious meme machine.

I’m presuming you are talking about the RB74, the 75 is an AGM.

Yep, the RB74 is a pretty good air to air missile, but so is the R60M. This is why we were promoting the rear aspect missile concept for the Cold War server.

Yesterday showed us that it can be even more fun with some good old tail chasing. :thumbup:

Alpenwolf, whay are there no wake turbulence on on your missions?

Alpenwolf, whay are there no wake turbulence on on your missions?

Some missions do.

Some missions do.

Is there any particular reason not to enable them?

Is there any particular reason not to enable them?

It had something to do with the game stability. I guess, it's not an issue any more.

Server News:

* All missions run under the good old weapons' restrictions *

Disabled AA weapons:

- R-60's and R-60M's.

- AIM-9L's, AIM-9M's and AIM-9P5's.

- RB-74's.

Disabled AG weapons:

- All AGM-65 variants except for the AGM-65H.

- AGM-122.

- All BK90 variants.

- Some RB variants (depends on the mission).

- CBU bombs.

- Nuke bombs.

- All AG guided bombs.

- When The Mountains Cry reenters the server and replaces Once Upon a Time in Abu Dhabi. Will be online tonight around 19:30 zulu.

- The Su-25T has been removed from all missions.

- The number of the available Harriers has been reduced.

- The Harriers will be removed gradually.

- Ground units in the mission Two Towns have been readjusted.

- Some KUB and Hawk sites have been replaced in some missions.

NOTE:

The weapons' restrictions will undergo multiple changes over the next days as testing and researches are required.

It had something to do with the game stability. I guess, it's not an issue any more.

cool, bring it on :). I enjoy bringing helis down with flyby :D .

I get that the harrier has fancy electronics, rwr, etc.. But why remove it from missions when the proper variant is not in place yet.

It now has no a2a, no SEAD capability, just bombs and rockets...

I see no problem in keeping it around until the proper harrier shows up, then it can be removed.

Also, what will this mean for the missions where you can activate Mig 29/ Mirage

What load-outs will they be able to choose from?