Incorrect laser rockets behaviour

Hello! I'm not sure if it all legit, but i tried to use those rockets in A-10C and Su-25T. I noticed that they are behaving exactly like Vikhr: they not guide TO laser spot, but fly with laser. This behaviour is totally incorrect and means that they cant be used with external spotting. I hope that will be fixed.

Mission in which i was testing it:

*To use in A-10C go to inventory and set 3xGBU-12 to pylon with rockets to use them.

JF-17 weapon test.miz

lets just wait to test on the actual plane. two days to go.

Seriously? A bug report before the plane has even been released? I think this a new record!

Hello! I'm not sure if it all legit, but i tried to use those rockets in A-10C and Su-25T. I noticed that they are behaving exactly like Vikhr: they not guide TO laser spot, but fly with laser. This behaviour is totally incorrect and means that they cant be used with external spotting. I hope that will be fixed.

 

Mission in which i was testing it:

*To use in A-10C go to inventory and set 3xGBU-12 to pylon with rockets to use them.

[ATTACH]222149[/ATTACH]

so you are not sure.

just wait for the aircraft then we all can see.

Well, as these rockets are using beam-riding guidance rather than semi-active laser guidance, it makes sense that it follows the laser.

Well, as these rockets are using beam-riding guidance rather than semi-active laser guidance, it makes sense that it follows the laser.

Are they beam riding in real life? Looks like the seeker is in the nose:

In the official deka stream in chinese on bilili, the guy mentions the rocket are laser beam riding in game.

According to u/pig2000d this is a compromise because of the limitations of the semi active laser homing API in DCS.

I can't understand how Deka thought changing the whole guidance method of the missile was a good trade-off instead of just having the missile not spin, but behave correctly in it's guidance.

I really wish Deka changes their decision. The BRM1 was one of the most exciting features of the JF-17 to me, but this just sucks.

Correct guidance > spinning

deka pls fix

I think so too, otherwise may not be able to support buddy lase or JTAC lase. It's in the known issue list anyways and will be posted later. Waiting for the missile team's decision.

thanks for the info and the fast reply. Hope the missile team agrees too. please keep us posted !

I hope they'll decide to change it - and put some pressure at ED to provide some core and API changes if necessary.

I was going to try some hilarious things with those rockets like firing them at high pitch angles and then switch my laser on manually or use a JTAC to have those rockets hammer down on top of some juicy targets or just bump up their range by firing them up 45° with lots of speed and let a JTAC home them in. With a steering behaviour like the Vikhrs, this is absolutely impossible.

Hello! I'm not sure if it all legit, but i tried to use those rockets in A-10C and Su-25T. I noticed that they are behaving exactly like Vikhr: they not guide TO laser spot, but fly with laser. This behaviour is totally incorrect and means that they cant be used with external spotting. I hope that will be fixed.

[ATTACH]222149[/ATTACH]

"Laser rider guidance" - Vikhr and Laser spot guidance - LMav\S-25L\Hellrire is two radical rather methods, do not mix them :music_whistling:

Big difference in the guidance, even if it is override DCS API.

With beam rider one can not start to maneuver so easily add missile will always try to stay between launcher and target LOS. And launcher can't just turn away after launch.

And with spot tracking launcher can just get someone else designate target, but that spot must be on the 90 degree (+-40-45) from the seeker angle, meaning one can't be at opposite direction or even 60-90 degree in other angle. Smoke, camouflage, terrain etc will block/eat the laser spot reflections and deny guidance, as well many other things render them unusable.

Most of these ain't modeled, instead laser spot is a perfect system that shines perfectly and from any direction, to any range etc, regardless material or weather conditions.

So can explain what this means? what it's supposed to be vs what it does?

I assume it's like a laser guided maverick.

you fire the rocket, and your TGP shines the laser on it. your rocket picks this up hits the target.

is it supposed to be some other way? like laser is shined from the rocket itself, and it self illuminates the target and heads to the target so you can shoot and forget??

So can explain what this means? what it's supposed to be vs what it does?

 

I assume it's like a laser guided maverick.

 

you fire the rocket, and your TGP shines the laser on it. your rocket picks this up hits the target.

apparently this is how its supposed to work, much like apkws.

op is saying it works instead like vikhr, where the rocket looks back at the airplane's laser for instructions on which way to turn. so when buddy lasing, rocket looks backwards and sees nothing, it goes dumb.

apparently this is how its supposed to work, much like apkws.

op is saying it works instead like vikhr, where the rocket looks back at the airplane's laser for instructions on which way to turn. so when buddy lasing, rocket looks backwards and sees nothing, it goes dumb.

Gotcha... doesn't seem so hard to model then. I don't see the big deal?

make it act like a mini AGM-65E... lol

what am I missing here? lol

I was going to try some hilarious things with those rockets like firing them at high pitch angles and then switch my laser on manually or use a JTAC to have those rockets hammer down on top of some juicy targets or just bump up their range by firing them up 45° with lots of speed and let a JTAC home them in. With a steering behaviour like the Vikhrs, this is absolutely impossible.

That would be very much impossible, as while these laser guided rockets (at least S-5Kor, S-8Kor, S-13Kor, and APKWS) doesn't require modifications to the launching platform rocket pods, wiring or software (they act exactly like the normal unguided rockets, guided versions are just longer ones than those), they are not such that you can just shoot them at all directions, as their gimbal is not having big range and their FOV is narrow. So you need to get them fired at the good close proximity of the target, and then have laser dot shining from the rocket flight path direction, that is something that the DCS doesn't simulate in the other laser guided weapons, as laser is considered to be a perfect.

But in theory, if you can get those rockets launched so you know they will turn their seekers toward that general target area, you should be able to get them guiding, as real limitation is the rocket engine power, as the seekers are in optimal situation capable find the laser spot from long range (S-8Kor has about 24km range).

Gotcha... doesn't seem so hard to model then. I don't see the big deal?

 

make it act like a mini AGM-65E... lol

 

what am I missing here? lol

Yeah, that seems to be the obvious solution. I wonder why they didn't do that.

Yeah, that seems to be the obvious solution. I wonder why they didn't do that.

Well. How much damage does it do vs vikhr? If it's the same you have your answer.

as their gimbal is not having big range and their FOV is narrow

Well, my theory is to shoot them dumb and ballistic so they might come down to the general area when their LST then spots the laser while they come down from their "space flight". If they'd pick up the signal right away, they'd crank hard onto the target and probably kill 80+% of ther kinetic energy in DCS right away

Basically, I want to do toss/lofting with those. I can throw GB-12s from ~20nm away and have them hit a lased target like that (ofc not self-lased due to the 8nm yardstick starwars laser in DCS). Propelled munitions with better cw should grant even more range, or less need of altitude and mach number (=less fuel) to get the same range.

Well. How much damage does it do vs vikhr? If it's the same you have your answer.

we're talking about guidance logic, not size of the charge within the warhead.

Well. How much damage does it do vs vikhr? If it's the same you have your answer.

Guidance method vs damage done is hardly an answer.

90mm vs whatever the diameter of the Vikhr shaped charge is a damage issue.

Wheteher the laser tracker is pointing at the target (like its supposed to), OR if its pointing back at the aircraft (like Vhikr) is all about guidance.

LOGIC...

This is supposed to track a laser spot from the front like a LMAV (or a really basic primitive one at least). NOT A beam riding missile like a Vhikr…

Is your real name Dunning or Krueger by any chance?

I was implying it is was reskined and remodeled vikhr and that's why it guides the way it does. But it seems to have been nerfed along with the sd-10.

I was implying it is was reskined and remodeled vikhr and that's why it guides the way it does. But it seems to have been nerfed along with the sd-10.

Well, let them reskin and decrease damage of a AGM-65E and call it BRM rocket. lol

Is there any news about this weapon guidance system, has it been fixed for a proper laser-spot-tracker instead being bream-rider?

Is there any news about this weapon guidance system, has it been fixed for a proper laser-spot-tracker instead being bream-rider?

It has been acknowledged in the DCS: JF-17 Known Issue List (Sticky Post) since release.

 

Weapons:

• Due to some limitations in missile scheme, the BRM1 is currently using beam riding guidance as a place holder.