DCS 2.5 - Su-25T Targetting Issue

I'm trying to make a mission flying the Su25T. At first it was a night strike but I couldn't lock the Kh-29T or KAB-500Kr (the engagement is supposed to be a precision engagement at range). I read several forum posts and discovered that the Shkval doesn't like low light conditions so I made it an early morning (sun not quite up but still plenty of light) mission. Still unable to lock, I made it a mid-morning mission. Still couldn't get the optics to lock. Thinking it was me, I went and attempted the Su-25T guided weapon training (Kh-29T and KAB-500Kr).

I can't get the guided weapons to lock at range - IN THE TRAINING MISSION. I can't seem to get the sensor to lock the M1. Randomly it will lock when I'm inside the minimum range - which does me no good - but when I go back around for another pass, I can't get it to lock at any kind of range. I've tried increasing and decreasing the target box. I've tried higher altitudes, I've tried lower altitudes. I've tried slow and fast with speed brakes on and off. I've tried shallow and steep dives. I even put the laser on (not that the mission says to) and still nothing.

I haven't flown Su-25T for a while but last time I flew it I didn't have any dramas - especially with the Kh29T. What's going on with this? Is anyone else having this trouble? What am I doing wrong?

Hi, I use the Su-25T quite a lot, but haven't used either of the weapons you're trying to use for quite some time. Decided I had better test them seeing as you appear to be having trouble with them.

I tried both in a quickly edited mission and had no trouble using either -both locked on target via the shkval easily enough.

I suspect you might be having some controller/allocation issue?

Just check you're using the correct command for lock (apologies if you're doing so but sometimes it can be something simple). If you are and it still doesn't work, find a spare key on the KB you can use instead (change it within the controls menu) or allocate another button on your joystick and try that.

Hi, I use the Su-25T quite a lot, but haven't used either of the weapons you're trying to use for quite some time. Decided I had better test them seeing as you appear to be having trouble with them.

I tried both in a quickly edited mission and had no trouble using either -both locked on target via the shkval easily enough.

 

I suspect you might be having some controller/allocation issue?

 

Just check you're using the correct command for lock (apologies if you're doing so but sometimes it can be something simple). If you are and it still doesn't work, find a spare key on the KB you can use instead (change it within the controls menu) or allocate another button on your joystick and try that.

Hey 159_Archer

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll go through my controls with a fine-tooth comb and test again, along with trying some suggestions I read concerning the Ka-50 (it can't hurt, surely). I'll let you know the outcome.

Sorry for taking so long, got side-tracked with a mission after having some success with the KAB-500Kr - I was able to get it to hit the target without a lock. Without being able to achieve lock with the Kh-29T, I can't progress to the use of the 500Kr so I can't remember if that's how it's supposed to work.

I tried a couple times before I went to bed, and again just now - in the training mission regarding the Kh-29T and KAB-500Kr. The Shkval refuses to lock for the Kh-29T. I even bound the auto-lock center target simplified command which did nothing.

I'm looking directly at an M1A1 and its inside the damn box, I'm within weapons release range, I've unlocked and re-locked the target point but the Shkval refuses to lock and I can't release the missile. The lock works, because the Shkval becomes ground stabilised, but it won't recognise what's in the target frame. This is becoming frustrating, especially since you claim it's working - so what the hell's wrong on my end?

So the shkval is locking the targets but the weapon will not fire?

I trust your fire command is OK -I don't doubt it.

I'm still suspicious that this is control related -there is no laser involvement or anything.

The only other thing that can and will affect using both these weapons is your approach to target. The Kab has a min alt IIRC and the 29T requires a shallow dive. I don't remember the exact paramiters, but I know for sure they have to be met to give launch authorisation.

If neither of these works, I will ask my more learned squad-mates -if they're not too drunk that is...

I just tried the 25T Kh-29T/KAB-500Kr training mission and couldn't get a proper lock.

The mission is set in very murky conditions (low light & overcast) so I wonder if this is the cause?

So the shkval is locking the targets but the weapon will not fire?

 

I trust your fire command is OK -I don't doubt it.

 

I'm still suspicious that this is control related -there is no laser involvement or anything.

The only other thing that can and will affect using both these weapons is your approach to target. The Kab has a min alt IIRC and the 29T requires a shallow dive. I don't remember the exact paramiters, but I know for sure they have to be met to give launch authorisation.

If neither of these works, I will ask my more learned squad-mates -if they're not too drunk that is...

What I mean by 'lock' in my previous post is that the Shkval is ground stabilised (i.e. it's locked to a point on the ground and continues to look at the same bit of ground unless I slew it elsewhere) but when I place the target frame over the tank the Shkval won't lock onto the tank, no matter how much I adjust the frame size or aiming point. The 'KC' does not change to 'AC'.

Multiple passes, multiple angles and speeds, dives and level, speed brakes on and off, doesn't seem to make a difference. It DID lock at one point, for about a second when I was pretty much on top of the Abrams but I was well inside the minimum range and wouldn't have gotten authority to release anyway.

While we're on the topic, the training mission doesn't cover release parameters either - not your or my responsibility to fix but if there are specific requirements: maybe they should be covered? I'm not overly sure about the parameters myself either, but I always put myself in a shallow dive when releasing ordnance - to keep the sensor centred or as close to for as long as I can.

I just tried the 25T Kh-29T/KAB-500Kr training mission and couldn't get a proper lock.

 

The mission is set in very murky conditions (low light & overcast) so I wonder if this is the cause?

I've wondered this myself. Considering the stories I've been reading about how woeful the Shkval (at least in DCS) is (more so in the Ka-50), you'd think they'd suggest equipping the Mercury Pod (which I'm thinking of doing in my missions - at least to see if it works). Regardless, for a training mission, how can you train if the environment is not conducive to allowing weapon release? :helpsmilie:

In low light conditions you should use the FLIR pod, for one. Straight TVs like the Shkval don't like that, and neither do the TV guided weapons. In low light, it's best to ditch TV guided weapons for this reason and use laser guided instead, on the Su-25T these have an L suffix (usually).

In daylight, assuming no new glitches, several things can cause targeting issues. Firstly, set the brackets to the expected target size (small number in upper left corner). This is easily overlooked but pretty important. 10 meters will work for most ground vehicles.

Next, it can get squirrely if there's objects or buildings near the target, and I would imagine it's worse now that the trees are real objects. Try changing your approach and altitude (usually better if you have some altitude)

I primaried the 25T for a long time

Also, bear in mind the FLIR has less zoom than the Shkval, also effective range for most these weapons is only 10-15km depending on your speed and altitude

Oh, and you can use the Shkval to engage slow moving air targets, too ;) I've shot down several helicopters as proof of concept =)

how would daylight tv seeker head of 500kr and 29t see what lltv sees? it doesnt. you simply dont use tv seeker weapons in poor light.

Yep. Both of those weapons are only intended to be used in situations with good visibility. This isn't a control issue or a DCS issue, just a limitation of the TV seeker.

You can laser guide to your heart's content though. :)

I thought I had better try the training mission to see what results I get -and I get the same as you guys -no ability to release the weapon (unless I press launch OR). The light isn't a problem as we are able to lock the targets -there is something wrong with the sim here.

I have found other issues with both the 25T and 25A weapons. Both have the CCIP/CCRP broken when dropping bombs and something funny is going on with some of the unguided rockets -sometimes they are accurate and the next pass they are going long for some reason.

Not being a PC expert I can't imagine what causes these things, but something about the Frogfoots in game in A2G mode isn't working correctly.

Can someone at ED confirm this or do you need some tracks of these numerous issues?

In low light conditions you should use the FLIR pod, for one. Straight TVs like the Shkval don't like that, and neither do the TV guided weapons. In low light, it's best to ditch TV guided weapons for this reason and use laser guided instead, on the Su-25T these have an L suffix (usually).

 

In daylight, assuming no new glitches, several things can cause targeting issues. Firstly, set the brackets to the expected target size (small number in upper left corner). This is easily overlooked but pretty important. 10 meters will work for most ground vehicles.

 

Next, it can get squirrely if there's objects or buildings near the target, and I would imagine it's worse now that the trees are real objects. Try changing your approach and altitude (usually better if you have some altitude)

 

 

I primaried the 25T for a long time

 

Also, bear in mind the FLIR has less zoom than the Shkval, also effective range for most these weapons is only 10-15km depending on your speed and altitude

 

 

Oh, and you can use the Shkval to engage slow moving air targets, too ;) I've shot down several helicopters as proof of concept =)

how would daylight tv seeker head of 500kr and 29t see what lltv sees? it doesnt. you simply dont use tv seeker weapons in poor light.

Yep. Both of those weapons are only intended to be used in situations with good visibility. This isn't a control issue or a DCS issue, just a limitation of the TV seeker.

You can laser guide to your heart's content though. :)

The reason I was avoiding laser guided weapons was I had intended the mission to use fire and forget weapons. I was going to try the Mercury Pod because I'd tried everything else - couldn't hurt, could it?

Also, regardless of what light/weather settings or the intentions are in the mission I'm making, the fact of the matter is I can't even get the sensor to lock onto the tanks and allow for missile release in the TRAINING mission provided by ED in DCS World.

I thought I had better try the training mission to see what results I get -and I get the same as you guys -no ability to release the weapon (unless I press launch OR). The light isn't a problem as we are able to lock the targets -there is something wrong with the sim here.

 

I have found other issues with both the 25T and 25A weapons. Both have the CCIP/CCRP broken when dropping bombs and something funny is going on with some of the unguided rockets -sometimes they are accurate and the next pass they are going long for some reason.

 

Not being a PC expert I can't imagine what causes these things, but something about the Frogfoots in game in A2G mode isn't working correctly.

 

Can someone at ED confirm this or do you need some tracks of these numerous issues?

At least I know it's not just me now - both Lixma and yourself having the same issue is enough for me. Not sure if it's enough for ED though but I feel at least partially vindicated - it's not my piloting skills. :joystick:

You have thus far only mentioned morning conditions and'enough light' (by your estimation). Have you tried a daytime mission yet to verify whether it's lighting conditions? Just because the light is poor in the training mission too doesn't rule that out.

Is this something you had trouble with before 2.5 or only since? If before, I'd say user error. If after, it's possibly a bug, but I'm inclined to still think user error just because of the way you're describing some things. Unfortunately, my system is down so I can't test myself =/

The same here...

I thought I had better try the training mission to see what results I get -and I get the same as you guys -no ability to release the weapon (unless I press launch OR). The light isn't a problem as we are able to lock the targets -there is something wrong with the sim here.

 

I have found other issues with both the 25T and 25A weapons. Both have the CCIP/CCRP broken when dropping bombs and something funny is going on with some of the unguided rockets -sometimes they are accurate and the next pass they are going long for some reason.

 

Not being a PC expert I can't imagine what causes these things, but something about the Frogfoots in game in A2G mode isn't working correctly.

 

Can someone at ED confirm this or do you need some tracks of these numerous issues?

Had the exact same experience in mission where you fly to destroy comand buildings near airfield. I couldn't get a lock, no matter how i tried. There is something buggy with the mission or you need a night Pod? But as far as i remember there is good visibility in the mission so it has to be buggy. Shame because this ruined a bit the first experiences with this otherwise great sim!

You have thus far only mentioned morning conditions and'enough light' (by your estimation). Have you tried a daytime mission yet to verify whether it's lighting conditions? Just because the light is poor in the training mission too doesn't rule that out.

 

Is this something you had trouble with before 2.5 or only since? If before, I'd say user error. If after, it's possibly a bug, but I'm inclined to still think user error just because of the way you're describing some things. Unfortunately, my system is down so I can't test myself =/

In the mission I am creating, I tried 0645, 0845 and 1045. It is a winter mission and the weather is clear. I had no luck across any of those times and at 1045 it was very much day time. I could see the intended targets (on the Shkval) well before I was in weapons range. Still couldn't get a lock (they're in an open field).

I didn't fly Su-25T too much before, but I had completed that particular training mission and never had an issue. I'll record it and put it on YouTube and provide a link - maybe you can pick up what I'm doing wrong (if it is me) and I can correct. If not, likely a bug?

Sounds like a bug then, if it's not locking in daylight. Or maybe the trees causing trouble. I got my PC back together but sold my flight gear (undergoing a major upgrade and rebuild). I'll borrow a HOTAS and see if it is behaving differently from normal. Are you having the same issue on other maps, or just Caucasus?

I might be resurrecting an old thread, but I was wondering if it has now been fixed?

I am getting back on DCS after many months off and I thought I just would re-do the SU25T tutorials to put me back in shape.

I have the same issue described here. I can lock/stabilize the TV, but my lock won't go from KC to AC, hence not being able to launch the missile (unless I override LA)

And, if it really is about lightening condition (it is true that the training mission is a bit cloudy, but still it's day-time)... Why would they write the training mission in lightning condition where you can't use the damn missile you are training for!?

That point doesn't make much sense...

I don't remember having that problem when I did the training back in 1.5. But then, I read posts about this issue that are 3 or 4 years old, so maybe I was lucky back then..