Do we have a rough time frame when this will be out? I feel the game really needs a dynamic campaign especially when you get new modules without campaigns and updates breaking current campaigns. 

Just went through the entire thread, very interesting discussion! Sort of neat to be able to follow all the discussion points like that as the topic evolved over a decade. I don't think there is anyway to even guess on a time frame, but given the complex nature of what they are aiming for, my guess is we will hear about updates before we hear about a release date. 

On 3/10/2022 at 3:00 AM, Callsign112 said:

Just went through the entire thread, very interesting discussion! Sort of neat to be able to follow all the discussion points like that as the topic evolved over a decade. I don't think there is anyway to even guess on a time frame, but given the complex nature of what they are aiming for, my guess is we will hear about updates before we hear about a release date. 

I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who enjoys being able to look back in time of how something evolved. That's the beauty of such threads!

On 9/8/2021 at 4:21 AM, upyr1 said:

there is a reason I joke the release date is when they will tell us two more weeks 

Now that sounds familiar

Either way, the thought alone of having a DC keeps me excited

On 3/15/2022 at 7:31 PM, Raffson said:

Now that sounds familiar

Either way, the thought alone of having a DC keeps me excited

Good for you i gave up all hope. All the modules for nothing. It is so very disappointing.

31 minutes ago, ALLynil said:

Good for you i gave up all hope. All the modules for nothing. It is so very disappointing.

- Not sure what makes you giving up all hope, if ED is actively working on a dynamic campaign??
- You can use your modules just fine without a dynamic campaign!
- If you bought your modules only to use them with a dynamic campaign, then why didn't you wait to do so until the dynamic campaign is available? Seems like a pretty dumb move to me.

Its hard to say, or even guess how work gets divided up at ED, but there are a few things that should be easier to speculate about.

One of them being the amount of work that needs to be done. I don't know how many people they have working on the various projects, or even how many projects exactly, but I think it is safe to say there is only so much that can be done at one time. They currently have a lot of big ticket items on the go.

Another issue might be the need to finish work on one project before work another dependent project can be finalized. We know they are working on Ai logic, and I wonder how important ironing out all the development issues with that are needed as inputs to the planned dynamic campaign feature? 

24 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

Another issue might be the need to finish work on one project before work another dependent project can be finalized. We know they are working on Ai logic, and I wonder how important ironing out all the development issues with that are needed as inputs to the planned dynamic campaign feature? 

Seeing as though the current state of the game involves AI that won't actually land their aircraft, and would rather do orbits somewhere and go into AB every time they bank, and end up running out of fuel and ejecting................

I'm okay with there not being a dynamic campaign right now, because it would go horribly thanks to the current AI, who may or may not do as they're told.

Beyond that, my speculation is it's currently between this, and sitting behind multicore work, both of which are vital to the performance and capability of the dynamic campaign's functionality.

From the recent ACS podcast Matt Wagner suggests ED have 150+ full time employees now, that’s a lot of people and doesn’t include the 3rd party developer staff. It appears separate teams are working on dynamic campaign, multi threading and the whole world map engine, although he didn’t specify how many people they have on each task it didn’t seem like each team was made up of one individual…
 

I agree AI performance is a major roadblock for a DCS dynamic campaign currently. However I do remember EECH having very dodgy AI but I was still drawn in by the campaign even though weird stuff would go on. I think it’s an area where perfect is definitely the enemy of good enough.

1 hour ago, Mogster said:

From the recent ACS podcast Matt Wagner suggests ED have 150+ full time employees now, that’s a lot of people and doesn’t include the 3rd party developer staff. It appears separate teams are working on dynamic campaign, multi threading and the whole world map engine, although he didn’t specify how many people they have on each task it didn’t seem like each team was made up of one individual…
 

I agree AI performance is a major roadblock for a DCS dynamic campaign currently. However I do remember EECH having very dodgy AI but I was still drawn in by the campaign even though weird stuff would go on. I think it’s an area where perfect is definitely the enemy of good enough.

You make a very good point, and adding to it I can think of other platforms that do have just as many issues with Ai but still have a dynamic campaign component to game play. I think the level of complexity ED is attempting to incorporate into its DC format may also be a factor, which makes it harder to compare what different game platforms have done.

Obviously ED could build a DC feature using whatever the current state of its Ai is as an input to the quality of the DC. But if ED is also currently trying to update/improve the state of its Ai, the question is whether there is any benefit to waiting for the updated Ai to appear? I am sure there is still no shortage of work that needs to be done on the DC while they wait for improvements in Ai to be completed.

But regardless of whether there is or there isn't, the number of really big ticket items being undertaken at the moment has got to be a factor in the overall rate of progress. 

I think even the AI were good, they shouldn't use it for the Dynamic Campaign. I think is not necesary, and the only things they have to simulate is the virtual movements of those units WHEN the AI is not  in the bubble of the player flying or viewing. In fact, there are already custom dynamic campaigns done with scripting. If they have to put CPU ussage computing the real behaviour of AI units fighting between them of the whole map, the campaign would be less than "dynamic". This "bubble" was the solution for other simulator.

Other thing is the absolutelly need of fixing the horrendous way of AI do things. UFO flying, crashes with terrain, and the examples here put already. Just working in that willl be a major enjoy experience with DCS even non dynamic campaigns developed.

On 4/8/2022 at 8:44 AM, Japo32 said:

Other thing is the absolutelly need of fixing the horrendous way of AI do things. UFO flying, crashes with terrain, and the examples here put already. Just working in that willl be a major enjoy experience with DCS even non dynamic campaigns developed.

 

Yah, there is no point releasing it without some major fixes to the AI behaviour.  It's not even close to 'good enough' yet.

I have to agree with the above. The Ai needs a major overhaul before a dynamic campaign can even be considered. Then we probably need multi core support to run it. And much better ground and sea Ai. An actual IADS and corresponding Ai. A full overhaul of the logistics model. All that just to lay the groundwork for a dynamic campaign. I think it will happen. But it's not going to be in the next few years. 

New news: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/6c7a187cc544c421702c1e7eaad58edd/

Seems like ED did actually implement some sort of bubble tech for DCS!! That's really good news as without it, it would be impossible to simulate a full scale dynamic war!
 

Quote

Dynamic Campaign Development Progress

The EDDCE Dynamic Campaign Engine will be a part of the DCS Core, allowing the creation of special campaigns where air, sea and land units do not have pre-created tasks, but are rather controlled by the strategic AI. Each side initiates the campaign on the basis of start conditions of the conflict this includes offensive or defensive position, asset resource list (including HQs, factories, warehouses etc), and specific objectives which are created from the onset for each individual campaign design. When a campaign starts, the strategic AI initiates the tasking process (ATO Air Tasking Orders, Ground tasking and Naval Tasking etc) for each unit in the side’s asset list and order of battle. This process of tasking and decision making is ongoing for the duration of the campaign and is a function of assets remaining and reinforcement and resupply cycles. It is important to remember that the player can take control of any AI unit and participate in its mission task and/or take indirect control over the strategic AI decisions, in addition to direct control over specific tasking orders.

After having completed the global structure of the Dynamic Campaign Engine in 2021, 2022 saw substantial fine-tuning of the system’s individual components. For example, our general scheme of ATOs was built starting from defensive combat air patrol operations along borders, through all subsequent stages, including SEAD suppression of enemy air defenses, air superiority, CAS close air support, interdiction and deep strike. Ground equipment and operations also received a lot of attention. In addition to the actual movement of units to perform their assigned mission, a mechanism was created for correctly tasking vehicles in a group based fashion depending on their tactical situation: attack, defense, or transit.

To increase the number of units in the campaign without over-tasking the CPU, only units that are ‘visible’ to the player or that ‘see’ the player (eyesight and sensor range based) are fully calculated. For the remaining units, lighter algorithms are used which are based on pre-calculated data sets. It is good to note that when preparing such data, separate mechanisms are used in EDDCE to easily process all upcoming equipment and weapons which will be added to DCS. To ensure that unit calculations do not negatively affect gameplay, seamless transitions between the lighter and the fully-fledged calculation models have been implemented. This will allow the player to see all the units in their correct place, performing their tasks while moving across the entire map. When interacting with the player, all units use the normal DCS algorithms.

Another important task that received attention this year is the ‘front-line’ system. A new model of multiple front-lines has been implemented that allows for a more illustrative picture of breakthrough and encircling maneuvers. During 2022, the main engine elements were tuned, allowing campaign management to be more automated, based on the dynamic situations as they evolve in the campaign. Please do follow our news for more information on this exciting core element of DCS.

3 hours ago, QuiGon said:

New news: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/6c7a187cc544c421702c1e7eaad58edd/

Seems like ED did actually implement some sort of bubble tech for DCS!! That's really good news as without it, it would be impossible to simulate a full scale dynamic war!
 

 

Yes! Very happy they found a way to implement this sort of thing. Hopefully it will carry over to other standard missions/ campaigns in the future. That would definitely help clientele with mid-lower end pc specs to enjoy the game without being a slideshow on heavy scenarios

Some dynamic campaign news in the current newsletter: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/5bf6ef59f8b97771ba0e0ac9904be8f7/
 

Quote

Dynamic Campaign

Development Report

DCS Dynamic Campaign (DCSDC) is one of the most important tasks for the future of DCS as it will add a new and much-demanded evolution/improvement of gameplay for both single player and multiplayer. Rather than mimic past solutions, we hope to set a new standard, one that provides a high level of interaction, authenticity, immersion, and ease-of-use. Our goal is to deliver a system that allows players to create their own dynamic (non-scripted) campaigns that will evolve based on strategic and tactical AI decisions, indirect player influences on AI actions, and direct player influences on the battlefield. This will all leverage existing DCS features such as Voice Chat, new ATC mechanisms, etc. This has been a tall order, and the effort has been underway since 2018 with a small but dedicated team.

Our focus in 2022 was on the creation and testing of General Air Operations tasks. In 2023, we shifted our DCSDC efforts to Ground Operations. This area will break new ground for dynamic campaigns and includes the following tasks:

• The creation of a realistic road network system that is based on a new road editor system. This allows units to have appropriate road movement conditions that are tied to the logistics and supply network. This also integrates into the movement of ground unit formations.
• A new ground unit formations editor was created that allows for the accurate assembly of units-based levels of command from platoon up to division, with all command levels in-between. Command structures vary based on the country and era, just like the real world and with correct terminology. Unit formations then operate realistically within their larger force structure based on tasking such as road march, meeting engagement, assault, defense, retreat, route, etc.
• We addressed ground forces behavior once engaged. This was one of the biggest, most complex tasks. Much of this was dependent upon force tasking, support from neighboring forces, organization of frontline forces, logistics (munitions and fuel), and disposition of enemy forces.

To assist with these items, a new and improved path-finding mechanism was developed that considers both the terrain topography and restrictive zones within it. This allows more sensible routing of formations based on the terrain properties.

In addition to Ground Operations tasks, we continue to work on Air Operations related tasks. For instance, many airfields currently have too few parking spaces available for a large DC. We don’t want to be limited to such limited numbers for large scenarios. To address this, we have developed a new process to expand spawn points for aircraft.

Next, we will finalize ground tasking, increase the level of internal and external testing, and begin work on the important Graphic User Interface (GUI).

Interesting improvements. As great as a DC will be, I'm hoping to also use some of the new features for traditional mission making.