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On 12/18/2022 at 11:10 AM, Antix70 said:

Wow, your gimbals bring back memories. I was friends with Ian (UberMod) and Greg (EvenStrain) when they came out with these mods, I built Greg's website to sell the EvenStrain gimbal, and I helped Ernie "CubPilot" with his Hall sensor mods. Greg and Ian were amazing machinists! Greg machined the pieces that went on to Cub's hall sensors, and made his brackets.

Your photo shows the sensor installed, but you mention not being able to get it inserted? Maybe post a photo of the problem area?

Wow, I should check the forums more often. I can't remember the exact details now, but I got everything working great in the end. I want to say that the problem was the sensors were slipping and I just needed to tighten them up, but I can see from my picture that I had already attempted that by then (the superglue on the nut). Shrug. And whatever the D pin problem was I got it resolved. Don't get old; memory like a sieve now.

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  • 1 month later...

Hey Rel4y,

 

Did you ever get a comm switch made up, I seen the button part but I need the internal part.. thnx the force mod looks awesome..

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ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4/AC / Intel i7 10700K @ 5.1Ghz / Noctua DHS-14 Heatsinkw/Fan /  Samsung 970plus m.2 1TB  /  eVGA FTW3 2080Ti /  RipJaws - 64GB RAM @3200  /  SoundBlaster Z  / Reverb G2 VR /  ThrustMaster HOTAS Cougar & MFD's / Buttkicker Gamer 2

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Let us know if this mod is still available once you find out.

51PVO Founding member (DEC2007-)

100KIAP Founding member (DEC2018-)

 

:: Shaman aka [100☭] Shamansky

tail# 44 or 444

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On 6/15/2023 at 6:54 AM, OziasMidwinter said:

Hello rel4y

I would be interested in acquiring a couple of replacement TQS radar cursor microsticks if you have any available.

I was asked to delete the links I posted as rel4y is still in business and making mods.


Edited by Tigershark624
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I am actually still very much in business, answer incoming emails regularly and send out orders weekly. I have recently made a large batch of updated mods and even developed new ones. I just don't check the DCS forums regularely anymore. I'll give you guys a quick overview on what I've been up to lately.

 

As you may have read earlier in this thread I have designed and made original spec OTTO hats. Now I have adapted these for all the TM sticks, aka Warthog, Cougar and F-22 Pro. Especially the DMS, CMS and radio COM hats should be interesting to a bunch of people.

IMG_20230505_174714.jpg IMG_20230608_224415.jpg

 

Furthermore the OTTO T4 replica hatswitches are done and working great! Only the large T4 trim is still awaiting their PCB from the factory, but the CAD files and prints are done. The hatswitches are soldered with a 5 or 6 wire connector depending on 4- or 5-way configuration. The switch itself is the same high quality (9-way) ALPS hat used in eg the Virpil stuff.

IMG-20230608-223949.jpg IMG-20221031-183819.jpg IMG-20230816-001825.jpg

 

I have also designed a CH hat replacement that is easily printable and has the exact same internal geometry and function as the CH hats. It is available in a 4-way and 5-way hat config (aka 4-way + push button). Obviously I can make any hat style compatible to this hatswitch. These hatswitches may be interesting for the DIY community as the original CH hats cost 50$ over at Mouser.

IMG-20230608-224706.jpg IMG-20230401-094029.jpg IMG-20230403-193834.jpg IMG-20230608-224924.jpg

 

Next, I have completely redesigned the 4021 shift regs and made the latest and greatest rev 2.1. These have the header pin layout adjusted to fit a breadboard and now finally have two mounting holes.

IMG-20230505-173951.jpg IMG-20230505-174016.jpg

 

Finally and most importantly, I have finished the Force sensing base and the FCC controller aka Warthog standalone mainboard. I'll be posting pictures of the boards as soon as they arrive from the fab. 😉

Here I am preparing the cable connectors for the FCC wiring. Sadly I wasn't able to find any premade cables suiting my needs, so I need to crimp them all myself. Oh well...

IMG-20230507-193346.jpg

Sooo, I'd like to share with you some info on my force sensing base and what will set it apart from the rest! While I just sent the latest & hopefully final PCB designs to the fab, I was testing my curent design against the FCC3 as well as the FSSB R3 from Realsimulator. While I like the FCC3 concept better than the FSSB, which has a noisy MCU directly on the (otherwise) analog board itself, the FCC3 PCB (and any of the recent blatant copies for that matter) have some major design flaws which can and should be ironed out.
 
I recently found a well suited opamp for the design which has 4.3x less noise than the FCC3 and still 2.6x less noise than the previous opamp I used, while also having much better CMMR. Just let me reiterate as it's easy to miss the significance, that would be a 430% decrease in noise! Before celebrating I need to test if it really performs to that level, but it surely looks promising.
 
The FCC really lacks a ground plane and that shows on the scope, especially in RFI susceptibility. Therefore I made a well structured layout with a ground plane as basis and also added an optimized RFI filter circuit to restrict signal bandwidth. Then The FCC3 completely ignored supply decoupling, so I got that fixed as well. Obviously the final layout is my little trade secret for now, but you can see the PCB backside is a 100% perfect clean ground plane and no pesky signal traces crossing in all sorts of unfavorable ways.
IMO this force sensing base is electrically state of the art now and will leave the other options in the dust! 🙂
 
PCB-back.jpg
 
I also ran some FEA simulations to get the perfect mounting spot for the sensors. The positioning on the FCC3 seemed improvable and I also wanted to show the difference an additional pressure plate makes to strain uniformity and why it is worth to add that extra complexity. I know most of the force sensing bases omit this one and I don't understand why, as it makes a big difference! Symmetry in the colored areas (strain) is what we are striving for. Have a look!
 
pressure-plate-comparison.jpg
 
Finally I took a few CAD screenshots to compare the physical dimensions of the FCC3 with my force sensing base and the F-16 blueprints. I tried my best to make it true to the F-16 dimensions and with my 13deg tailpiece it's pretty much spot on. In this picture the grip itself is overlayed to the blueprints and you can see by how much the lower base is off in comparison to the blueprints. Basically the grip mounted on an FCC3 sits a few cm taller than the SSC in the F-16 does.
 
FCC-MTW-vs-FCC3.jpg
 
 
Hope that wasn't too much rambling for you guys! 😃

Edited by rel4y
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Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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omg, very interested as my fssb just died on me. This looks very promising

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My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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On 8/17/2023 at 6:41 PM, The LT said:

omg, very interested as my fssb just died on me. This looks very promising

Which FSSB version do you have? I may be able to repair it, just depends if its worth the shipping costs to Germany from where you live.

 

On 8/17/2023 at 8:09 PM, MAXsenna said:

@rel4y

Will the force sensing solution be released for the Warthog base first and then the Cougar? 

Cheers! 

I planned to do a phased release initially, but since I have taken so long I finished all the models by now. Therefore I can release all models at once (simpit, Cougar, Warthog, FCC standalone controller).

 

I forgot to mention that I bought a TM F-18 stick for a really good price as it had broken hatswitches. Turns out the problem wasn't broken hatswitches but simply a bad hatswitch design. Initially I reverse engineered the 5-way hatswitches to print a fixed one, but it turned out I can simply cut off a mil from the cheapo rubber buttons in the 5 way and make them actually fit the housing. Took me a while to figure out, but the fix was a small scalpel trim and now I have a perfectly good F-18 stick (and a modeled TM 5-way hat). 🙂 I have to say though the F-18 stick has got to be the most overengineered thing I have seen in a while... Whoever designed that thing must have been smoking some mad stuff.

F-18-5way-hatswitch.jpg


Edited by rel4y
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Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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3 minutes ago, rel4y said:

I planned to to a phased release initially, but since I have taken so long I finished all the models by now. Therefore I can release all models at once (simpit, Cougar, Warthog, FCC standalone controller).

Oh! That's great news. I have three Cougars, that's why I ask. 

Smoking? Those that designed the gimbals of the Cougar comes to mind. They obviously tried to correct in the Warthog, but that's not even a gimbal. 🤭 

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Just now, MAXsenna said:

Oh! That's great news. I have three Cougars, that's why I ask. 

Smoking? Those that designed the gimbals of the Cougar comes to mind. They obviously tried to correct in the Warthog, but that's not even a gimbal. 🤭 

True! 😉

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Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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you truly are a gifted engineer! great great stuff, thanks for all your commitment !!

since you mentioned the F18 grip, i would like to suggest some ideas:

1) as TM missed to implement the push function in the TRIM switch (which as we learned since the release of the F15 has an important function), maybe you could find a replacement solution to this issue? (maybe connect the trim push switch in parallel to the RECCE?)

2) for a long time i've been thinking how cool it would be, if TM had designed the CASTLE sw and the TRIM sw in such way that they were 'plug & play' interchangeable, so that their grip would also 100% replicate that of the harrier

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  • 5 weeks later...

@rel4y

I find the feel of the switches of the TM F-18 stick rather poor. I can‘t understand why they didn‘t use the same ones as on the Viper stick even though they have the same functionality (i.e. 5-way hat).

Do you consider making replacements for the TM F-18 stick as well? Especially my Weapon Select Switch is rather sticky in the forward position.

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 vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.

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I've been wanting to post an update for almost two weeks now, but my kids and then of course the whole family had an especially nasty case of the Kindergarten flu. I swear Kindergarten/ preschool is actually some sort of government funded bioweapons factory, every germ that gets out of there is ten times worse than anything you could ever pick up at work... 😵‍💫

 

I've made a new batch of CH sensors and have three 12 Bit CH upgrade mainboards left. I think I'll pull the CH mainboards from my portfolio as they are a bit of a hassle to solder and interest has slowly faded over the years. I'll keep the CH sensors though so people can always find spares for their ageing CH devices. Actually I've just tested a new type PCB with an SMD mounted trimpot instead of the large blue trimmers for the CH sensors. Definitely more complicated to calibrate initially, but it results in a significantly smaller sensor.

Third pic also shows the new PCB + ALPS 9-way switch for the replica F-16/ Mason/ OTTO trim hats. I haven't printed the F-16 trim hat & case yet, as I need to adjust a few dimensions from my experience with the replica T4 Mini hatswitches.

DSC01553.jpg DSC01555.jpg DSC01557.jpg

 

Last time I forgot to mention that I also considered the "classic" force transducer layout for the FCC with cutout tabs (such as used in the FSSB). I ran an FEA stress simulation on this and found no real benefit over the more sleek looking plain plate. Yes, the stress is isolated in the cutout tabs, but other than a minimal reduction in signal amplification there is not much difference. Arguably axis isolation/ crosstalk seem to be worse as torsion forces are also concentrated in the "inactive" tabs perpendicular to stick input. Although that's a bit of an academic discussion and in reality it's basically negligible in both types. That's why I chose to go with the imo visually more pleasing plain plate.

pressure-plate-cutouts-strain.jpg pressure-plate-strain1.jpg

 

Here are a few pics of the finished FCC R4 with the Warthog mounting plate.

DSC01702.jpg DSC01704.jpg DSC01706.jpg DSC01708.jpg

As you can('t really) see the "FCC controller" is doing its job in converting a Warthog base to a force sensing base. I won't show off the FCC controller yet as I am still missing a few LEDs indicating when the axes are centered and a few SMD elements for ADC filtering. Just to clear things up, the FCC controller is a completely optional mainboard that makes the FCC R4 work as standalone unit, eg in a simpit. However, the FCC R4 will also work natively with a Cougar mainboard and mounted in a Cougar base! I will explain all of that in detail in the next update.

 

On 8/19/2023 at 9:44 AM, HILOK said:

you truly are a gifted engineer! great great stuff, thanks for all your commitment !!

since you mentioned the F18 grip, i would like to suggest some ideas:

1) as TM missed to implement the push function in the TRIM switch (which as we learned since the release of the F15 has an important function), maybe you could find a replacement solution to this issue? (maybe connect the trim push switch in parallel to the RECCE?)

2) for a long time i've been thinking how cool it would be, if TM had designed the CASTLE sw and the TRIM sw in such way that they were 'plug & play' interchangeable, so that their grip would also 100% replicate that of the harrier

Thank you so much for the kind words!

1) Since the 3 4021 shift regs in TM sticks support up to 24 buttons but only 23 are used, it should be possible to add 1 more button. I just don't know if TARGET will be able to recognize that. I'll give that a try when time permits. As mentioned above my trim incl. push button will be finished soon, now that the PCBs arrived from the fab.

2) The F-18 TM 5-ways are much larger in diameter than the Cougar/ Warthog hatswitches. The trim will fit into the Castle no issues with an adapter, but the other way around is problematic. But I can simply pop the castle hat to my 5-way trim and it should fit. Overall absolutely solvable I'd say!

 

On 9/17/2023 at 12:47 PM, Phantom711 said:

@rel4y

I find the feel of the switches of the TM F-18 stick rather poor. I can‘t understand why they didn‘t use the same ones as on the Viper stick even though they have the same functionality (i.e. 5-way hat).

Do you consider making replacements for the TM F-18 stick as well? Especially my Weapon Select Switch is rather sticky in the forward position.

Yeah, I dislike them as well! They imitated the tactile OTTO T4 Minis in a needlessly large footprint and used some new cheapo rubber buttons instead of the tried and tested OMRON buttons. Not a fan at all! Does anybody know if the real F-18 stick uses the tactile hatswitches, I know for a fact the F-16 has the standard T4 Minis!


Edited by rel4y
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Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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7 hours ago, rel4y said:

I've been wanting to post an update for almost two weeks now, but my kids and then of course the whole family had an especially nasty case of the Kindergarten flu. I swear Kindergarten/ preschool is actually some sort of government funded bioweapons factory, every germ that gets out of there is ten times worse than anything you could ever pick up at work... 😵‍💫

This is sooo recognizable 😅

Good to hear from you again!

That FCC R4 is looking good 👍. Also good to see that you are making it standalone (I have 2 Cougar bases sitting around, but both PCB's seem dodgy). I know it's still early, but what price tag are you aiming for?

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System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great news guys, it's done, it's finished, it's aaaliiiive! 🥳

Now I can proudly say I have actually finished the force sensing project, after what.. like 3,5 years?! Although in 2021/22 pretty much zero work was done due to family and C19. I had all of the mechanical parts already laying around but the electronics were still very much rudimentary. In early 21 I had made a few for a commercial project, but with a completely different electronics layout as they wanted I2C comms with sigma delta ADCs for a very specific MCU.

I am super happy with the electronics now. It is already the third tested revision of this PCB layout and I spent a lot of time optimizing filters. The supply filtering as well as output filtering are spot on and noise is several factors lower than on the FCC3. Contributing to a low noise floor is a different type of resistor that I changed to recently, they are about 25x the cost compared to standard 1% resistors but in bulk it's still just penny stuff. In the following picture you can see rev 1.2 and 1.3 in my Cougar prototype setup. The production units will have all standard nuts replaced with locking nuts, but for ease of dis/assembly I chose not to use them. Also you can see wires sticking out on the side, that's just the prototype so I can switch between PCBs and quickly solder them back on.

Second pic shows the FCC controller installed in the Cougar base working in combination with the FCC R4. The joystick button cable for the shift regs is not soldered on, again for ease of swapping out PCBs. However, I did test it separately and it works flawlessly. The FCC controller mounts without any problems to the Cougar base and would be a good replacement for broken Cougar mainboards even if using the standard Cougar gimbal.

I've also 3D printed a jig for sensor placement, although the slits are too wide on this one and I will reprint it.

DSC01734.jpg DSC01726.jpg DSC01740.jpg

 

The FCC controller is still missing two LEDs for hardware indication of X&Y axis center position, but the ADC filter is now complete. Since I needed new connectors for the Cougar Ministicks which can currently only be sourced from Japan, I ordered some quality filter components together with them. In hindsight that was a pretty bad decision, because the Japanese electronics supplier sent me several packages and for each of them I had to pay a ridiculous amount of import taxes and DHL fees.. Well, s.. happens, at least the filters are working well! 😵‍💫

The FCC controller has a reset button to activate the bootloader. That way one can even easily flash MMJoy2 and I've made a preconfigured profile as well. The small 6pin connector is for the Warthog joystick buttons, the larger 5pin for the Cougar. For Warthog installation I'll need 90deg connectors, which are already in the mail.

That's where I made a stupid mistake.. To get the Warthog mounting holes correct I actually took the time to make an accurate CAD model of the Warthog base lower ring (third pic). Next, I mistyped the measured distance by exactly 1mm on the PCB layout editor and now the Warthog mounting hole spacing of the FCC controller is off. I think it still fits, but can only be mounted with one screw... bummer! 🙄

Fourth pic shows the comparison to Cougar and Warthog mainboards.

DSC01727.jpg DSC01728.jpg Warthog-base-ring.jpg DSC01732.jpg

 

In terms of Software, the FCC controller will be running @uri_ba amazing software as standard option. I will contact him regarding a few minor quirks I found and maybe he will find the time to iron them out! 🙂 First pic shows the FCC controller interface with the optional sensor rotation enabled, as it is in the real aircraft. I moved the stick only vertically and horizontally and the software does the offset. You also have the option of proportional force mapping accurate to the real F-16 analog or digital FLCS. Now the preconfigured sensitivity settings will not be accurate, as my FCC R4 has higher max force limits than the FCC3 (which has ~4-6kgf at max output).

Second picture shows the FCC controller configured with MMJoy2 and no filtering whatsoever, so plain raw signal. On the right side you can see me jitter perpendicular to the input axis at higher forces, as apparently I need to give the gym a visit (and I was simply holding down the Cougar base on the table with my second hand). I noticed even when walking around in the room it picked up the vibrations... pretty crazy.

Flashing MMJoy2 over uribas software can simply be done via the reset button, the other way around is not so straightforward as it turns out. MMJoy2 apparently overwrites the bootloader and I needed to reflash it via my trusty old USBasp (third pic).

FCC-controller-13deg-rotation.jpg unfiltered-input-FCC-controller.jpg DSC01738.jpg

 

Quote

Initial implementation was referred to as “Analog FLCS” as the pressure sensing gains were all hardware driven (pre-amps, resistors etc.), which meant that whatever forces the SSC was initially designed for were there to stay. The Analog FLCS was calibrated so that the full pitch up command (+10G) required 180N (40.46 lbf / 18.35Kgf). Full pitch down command (-4G) on the other hand required 80N (18 lbf / 8.15Kgf), full roll was also 80N.

With block 40/42 the “Digital FLCS” was introduced. Unlike it’s predecessor, the electronics on it were programmable and it was possible to change the gains from the device. According to the Dash1 manual in the block 52+, the current gains are 25lbf (111N / 11.34 Kgf) for full pitch up and full pitch down is 16lbf (71N / 7.25Kgf). While the full roll command is 17lbf (7.7 Kgf / 75.6N).

I actually tried the older style analog SSC forces required on my prototype (a ridiculous 40.46 lbf / 18.35kgf for full pitch up) and it is simply no fun whatsoever. No wonder the pilots complained, I get tendinitis just by thinking about it.. Therefore I decided to go for the modern digital SSC force limits with 25lbs max pitch and that can be digitally turned down to a flightsimmer friendly 13lbs/ 6kgf or even lower if desired.

 

❗Now here is the question to you guys. Would you prefer the real deal digital SSC limits aka 25lbf / 11.34 kgf or the usual 6kg such as FCC3/ FSSB R3. I'd always go for realism, but it definitely still is a workout and you do lose some precision when digitally setting lower force settings.

 

Currently I have enough parts for 20 units. Three of them are already reserved for people who helped me out massively in designing the FCC R4 and will be sold for parts cost. The first unit, aka my prototype will stay with me, so there are 16 units left to be sold in the first batch. For this first batch I will include a set of replica F-16 DMS & CMS hatswitches for the Cougar/ Warthog as a thank you gift (see pictures below). The electronics on the FCC R4 will have a three year warranty included, but that's for legal reasons and honestly if something breaks after these three years I'll likely fix it anyway, as I've done with my older mods. If you manage to break any of the metal parts, then I'd be really surprised.

DSC01735.jpg DSC01737.jpg

 

If you legends would help me spread the word and sell these 16 units, then I will have recouped all my R&D costs and even have some funds left over for my next projects. These next projects will include a replica F-16 force transducer Slew for Cougar and Warthog Throttles, based on similar electronics as the FCC R4. Secondly forged carbon fiber F-16 pedals and angled Cougar/ Warthog tailpieces. As you may know the CAD models for these are done, I just need to spend the cash to buy the composite materials and make compression moulds.

IMG-20190524-191939.jpg Cougar-tailpiece-13deg-V2.jpg

 

On 9/28/2023 at 7:05 AM, sirrah said:

This is sooo recognizable 😅

Good to hear from you again!

That FCC R4 is looking good 👍. Also good to see that you are making it standalone (I have 2 Cougar bases sitting around, but both PCB's seem dodgy). I know it's still early, but what price tag are you aiming for?

Hey mate, hope you are doing well! Happy to see you are still following my projects after so many years! 🙂

Let's talk prices then.

FCC R4 aka simpit version: 299€

optional Cougar/ Warthog mounting plate + hardware: 10€

optional FCC controller: 35€

Shipping: need to research that, but I'm aiming for 10€

Edit: Prices include VAT already.


Edited by rel4y
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Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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Great achievement !! PM sent :)


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Win 10 Pro 64 - i6700K @ 4.7GHz - MSI 1080ti Gaming X OC - 32 GB DDR4 Fury X - 1x 512GB 960 Pro SSD - 1x 512GB 850 Pro SSD - TM Cougar - TM Warthog - MHG Crosswind - Rift CV1 - Track IR 5

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25 minutes ago, morek99 said:

Great achievement emoji122.pngemoji122.png !! PM sent 🙂


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Yes indeed, also from me:

Congrats! and PM sent 😄

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System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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@rel4y Just a small comment. the FLCS emulation feature in my FCC controller does not force the actual forces.. But will use the proportion of the forces where the max value is the one you have stated in the force settings. the force is computed by the gains provided by Arend at the time for the two versions of the hardware he made. "cougar" and "warthog" (very few warthog devices were produced before his passing)
for "cougar" 9kg/f was 1.5V (off the 2.5v neutral position). so 1.0v = -9kg/f, 4.0V = +9kg/f
in WH it was 2V for 9kg/f, so 0.5V and 4.5V.

you can change the controller to WH mode and it might work better with your hardware.

and yes, for desktop 4-6 kg force is the limit. I used to fly with 7.5kg in my pit. but I would very much recommend you enable the FLCS emulation. it makes all the difference and allows a much smoother and intuitive flight experience. (less force is required to get a full down deflection)

as for jitter in the stick. it's probably just my software, I used samples in intervals which may cause some issues. I recommend you check with another 3rd party software to ensure the jitter is actually there. because from my experience, it was pretty smooth
 

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3 hours ago, uri_ba said:

@rel4y Just a small comment. the FLCS emulation feature in my FCC controller does not force the actual forces.. But will use the proportion of the forces where the max value is the one you have stated in the force settings. the force is computed by the gains provided by Arend at the time for the two versions of the hardware he made. "cougar" and "warthog" (very few warthog devices were produced before his passing)
for "cougar" 9kg/f was 1.5V (off the 2.5v neutral position). so 1.0v = -9kg/f, 4.0V = +9kg/f
in WH it was 2V for 9kg/f, so 0.5V and 4.5V.

you can change the controller to WH mode and it might work better with your hardware.

and yes, for desktop 4-6 kg force is the limit. I used to fly with 7.5kg in my pit. but I would very much recommend you enable the FLCS emulation. it makes all the difference and allows a much smoother and intuitive flight experience. (less force is required to get a full down deflection)

as for jitter in the stick. it's probably just my software, I used samples in intervals which may cause some issues. I recommend you check with another 3rd party software to ensure the jitter is actually there. because from my experience, it was pretty smooth
 

Yes, in my wall of text, it probably wasn't clear. I had to write in a hurry to at least get out the good news, since I left for vacation yesterday. However, I'll answer all you guys nice mails and PM's today! Thank you so much!

My FCC version has different V/force output than the FCC3, that's why I said the preset sensitivity settings of uri_bas software won't be accurate. Since I can adjust amplification and also measure force input, it was easy to set up a custom sensitivity for me. On my prototype unit I even have hardware set pitch on a different amplification than roll, but that's just me playing around. As I wrote above, initially I placed the sensors so I could get full force output at 40lbsf, but that was tendinitis inducing and I quickly scrapped it.

I ran into two minor problems though, my FCC R4 rev 1.3 has rail to rail output, so pretty much 0.1-4.9V. I wasn't able to make use of the full range except with the MMJoy2 config, now I understand why. The rev 1.2 worked fine though.

How do I set the Warthog mode?

Second was stair stepping at quick input release. Just to be clear, there is no jittering whatsoever, the filtering works and output is silky smooth. I see stair stepping at small time differentials during force reversal. Open eg VKB joystick viewer and in quick succession go pitch up and immediately release input. After the top you will see a stair step before returning to a smooth curve. When reading raw output signals (unfiltered from the ADC) of the FCC R4 I don't see these stair steps, so my guess is the software is running into some averaging issues.

And again, I am absolutely impressed with your software and these really are minor issues! Maybe, if you find the time and are interested, we can work together on looking into the issues? You can PM me if you are interested in testing one in person.

 

On 10/7/2023 at 10:28 AM, morek99 said:

Great achievement emoji122.pngemoji122.png !! PM sent 🙂

 

On 10/7/2023 at 10:55 AM, sirrah said:

Yes indeed, also from me:

Congrats! and PM sent 😄

Thank you so much, guys! 😊


Edited by rel4y
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Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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On 10/6/2023 at 6:29 PM, rel4y said:
Currently I have enough parts for 20 units. Three of them are already reserved for people who helped me out massively in designing the FCC R4 and will be sold for parts cost. The first unit, aka my prototype will stay with me, so there are 16 units left to be sold in the first batch. For this first batch I will include a set of replica F-16 DMS & CMS hatswitches for the Cougar/ Warthog as a thank you gift (see pictures below). The electronics on the FCC R4 will have a three year warranty included, but that's for legal reasons and honestly if something breaks after these three years I'll likely fix it anyway, as I've done with my older mods. If you manage to break any of the metal parts, then I'd be really surprised.

If you legends would help me spread the word and sell these 16 units

Pm sent
 

Quote

Now here is the question to you guys. Would you prefer the real deal digital SSC limits aka 25lbf / 11.34 kgf or the usual 6kg such as FCC3/ FSSB R3. I'd always go for realism, but it definitely still is a workout and you do lose some precision when digitally setting lower force settings.

Having used both FSSB and Winwing MFSSB, I can say that personally I tune down forces a lot. So if there is no way to keep precision it would be better to use a lower force. Winwing also have a 6kg limit on their unit and I use it at 55% Y+, 45% Y-, 33% Xleft, 28% Xright. 
 


Edited by VirusAM

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