PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller

Keep in mind that this is a VR use item. Also remember that you are simulating being in a real airplane. If you are typing away with both hands in the cockpit, that is probably going to go badly. The concept and the end product is to allow you to flip switches and do things to increase immersion and decrease the feel of a keyboard run game. PC does this exceptionally well. My understanding is that there are VR keyboards available. I'm sure I saw someone had integrated one into DCS.

The bottom line is that PC wasn't designed for, and shouldn't, do anything but what it was built to do. The good idea fairy can be a real bitch sometimes! lol

Yeah sure, as stated in my initial post - not expecting it to be possible, and even if it was, I wouldn't expect Miles to go through that hurdle to make it happen, haha. PointCtrl looks amazing, and I have been a fan and buyer since the first time I saw it, and I keep telling myself everytime I fly that jeeeeez, am I looking forward to getting those and let go of this mouse. :) As the others have said; Can't wait to see videos with it used by others, as well as getting to try it myself once it arrives and I've got hold of some VR gadget. All creds to Miles for this one!

Miles,

A couple of question about the pdf instructions.

1) Page 18, "Menu Left" and "Menu Right" refers to selecting the menu item using either the left FCU or the right FCU, not two menus? Or do I have to calibrate both FCU separately?

2) Page 19 step 8, "Point at each of the 5 Sequentially presented targets..." Do I just point my arm in the direction of the target and push the button on the FCU, or is there a cursor I use to point(match)the displayed cross? I don't see it.

If I point my arm, how far out do I reach?

Thanks

Miles,

A couple of question about the pdf instructions.

1) Page 18, "Menu Left" and "Menu Right" refers to selecting the menu item using either the left FCU or the right FCU, not two menus? Or do I have to calibrate both FCU separately?

 

2) Page 19 step 8, "Point at each of the 5 Sequentially presented targets..." Do I just point my arm in the direction of the target and push the button on the FCU, or is there a cursor I use to point(match)the displayed cross? I don't see it.

If I point my arm, how far out do I reach?

 

Thanks

Hey FarmerTom,

1) Menu Left and Menu Right refers to the graphic menu item from page 17. One press is all it takes to cycle to the next menu, There will be a delay until the cursor outline of the current graphic is completed, it will then display the next outline. Only one calibration procedure is required, not one for each FCU.

2) You will only see the cursor targets, not a moving cursor of where you are currently pointing. You want to do your best to point naturally and directly at the cursor target with your arm extended as you would have it in the cockpit.

Good questions, I hope that helps,

Miles

This might help also if you haven't seen it

https://youtu.be/9GqJqrFG0cQ

Yeah sure, as stated in my initial post - not expecting it to be possible, and even if it was, I wouldn't expect Miles to go through that hurdle to make it happen, haha. PointCtrl looks amazing, and I have been a fan and buyer since the first time I saw it, and I keep telling myself everytime I fly that jeeeeez, am I looking forward to getting those and let go of this mouse. :) As the others have said; Can't wait to see videos with it used by others, as well as getting to try it myself once it arrives and I've got hold of some VR gadget. All creds to Miles for this one!

Thanks for the suggestion 9echo,

That's an interesting idea, My default position is always "sure, I can do that" so, sure, I can do that. As long as their is interest in PointCTRL I will keep improving it. I have a whole list of enhancements I will be doing through firmware, most notable, the 36 Virtual Radial Buttons just outside the perimeter of your field of view.

Their are actually a few options to implement something like you mentioned. FireCat had some dual cursor software running in the background interfering with PointCTRL. A simple method would be the option to display both FCU cursors when they in the field of view, The one on the right would would activate by the right FCU and the Left by the left FCU. We will eventually have the option to use PonitCTRL as is, a stand alone mouse cursor, or use it integrated into the V/R environment.

So Sure, I can do that, I just don't know when.

Thanks for the great suggestion,

Miles

Well, regardless of such a feature in the future or not; You are still a genious, and I just have to stand behind the rest of community in the praise of PC and the legend behind the wonder. I still keep saying to myself "how on Earth have no VR HMD producer done this yet, rather than those clumsy things they push out". Keep it up, you’re doing some amazing work that is awesome to watch happening!

Well, regardless of such a feature in the future or not; You are still a genious, and I just have to stand behind the rest of community in the praise of PC and the legend behind the wonder. I still keep saying to myself "how on Earth have no VR HMD producer done this yet, rather than those clumsy things they push out". Keep it up, you’re doing some amazing work that is awesome to watch happening!

Well it’s pretty niche. Most VR manufacturers are interested in producing something that is fully tracked in 3D and can interact with objects in 3D like a pair of hands. This currently does require them to be a bit clumsy but it’s ok because for most of the games you use VR hand controllers with you aren’t picking them up or putting them down very often. Our use case of wanting to intermittently point at a button with a mouse cursor but the rest of the time go back to our physical controls is pretty much unique to flight simming and I’m not surprised it’s taken a smart community member to figure it out.

A couple of Qs for the lucky PointCtrl (PC) owners out there;

1a. How does the handeling of "turn knobs" work, cross modules? (Since ED seems lack 3rd party standards for knobs)

1b. Is it possible, using PC, to interact with the UH-1 Huey, ADF freq knob? Since that function, for some reason, uses mouse scrollwheel...

2. Anyone tried PC as F14B RIO in MP? And how did that go (compared to mouse)?

A part of NOSIG

A couple of Qs for the lucky PointCtrl (PC) owners out there;

 

1a. How does the handeling of "turn knobs" work, cross modules? (Since ED seems lack 3rd party standards for knobs)

 

1b. Is it possible, using PC, to interact with the UH-1 Huey, ADF freq knob? Since that function, for some reason, uses mouse scrollwheel...

 

2. Anyone tried PC as F14B RIO in MP? And how did that go (compared to mouse)?

 

A part of NOSIG

to 1a

sometimes a bit different,but for most knobs just press and hold button 1/2 and moving your hand up/down or left/right turns the knob

to1b

mousewheel function is implemented and ADF knob and F18 wing fold are working, u will have to read the pointctrl manual to understand how this function works. button 3 is the wheel and the other buttons are for the change of direction, when u change the direction remember not to do that while having the cursor over a switch or knob

to 2.

sorry havent yet tried

Thanks for the suggestion 9echo,

 

FireCat had some dual cursor software running in the background interfering with PointCTRL.

 

Miles

Yes, I did and solved it thanks to Miles. So in the remote chance, anyone else has the problem or maybe something similar here is a possible solution depending on the circumstance.

In "Windows-settings-Bluetooth & Other" I had a Pluralinput Mouse 1.0 Drive error showing this was also in Device Manager under "Mice and other pointing devices"

How to resolve (well hopefully as it did for me.)

1/ Plugin the HMS.

2/ Now bottom right corner of your desktop click on the square [notifications] box then [All settings]-[Devices] under [Mouse, Keyboard & Pen]

If you have Pluralinput Mouse 1.0 showing click on it to reveal Drive error.

2/ Open device manager [start]-[WindowsSystem]-[ControlPanel] click on Device Manager. In the window, you should now see the problem device in the drop-down under Mice and other pointing devices.

3/ Right-click on the problem driver and select uninstall. If a pop asks if you want to uninstall/remove the driver completely click yes.

Note. If there is more than one instance of the problem driver showing (I had 3) unplug the HMS (this left 2)and carry out the procedure. Plug the HMS back in if the problem driver reappears right click and uninstall then reboot the computer.

If all goes well on the reboot the HMS will now show in "Windows-settings-Bluetooth & Other" as PointCTRLV.1

On another note, PointCTRL puts DCS VR immersion on another level. I have spent the last 2 weeks in my headset enjoying every minute flying. It is now becoming so natural to point and click I could never go back to a mouse, it would quite simply destroy my emersion.

Miles, you are a true hero you have breathed pure oxygen into my office and made me giddy with joy. Yes, its Christmas all over again.

I spent a few days playing with the settings until I had it right for me. I first memorised the procedures and had a few dry runs looking at Miles great pdf's doing this made setting up a walk in the park. I found I had to keep my head very still looking straight out the hud as I went through the procedures to get the best results for me.

I would suggest anyone waiting for their PointCTRL start walking your self through the procedures in advance, Miles kneeboard is great to use if you need to, but there is nothing like being prepared. Imagine you have the FCU's on, then point at the photo's in the pdf and go through pressing the buttons in your mind and what to do if XYZ happens. Know it off by heart it will go along way to making setup run smoothly for you.

Big thanks to Miles and all the early testers what a great community we have.

To recount some of my experiences installing and using PointCTRL, I am going to abbreviate it to PC.

First let me say that I am Old, wear glasses, and dumb as dirt. ;)

PC was packaged very nicely and arrived in good shape. I like the American flag! The first thing I did was charge the FCU with the included cable. I think when the units are charging, an led on the USB plug is lite. Is that correct Miles?

Then I downloaded the latest firmware update 04072019. Make sure that the HMS is plugged in to the provided USB cable and plugged into the computer. :doh:

Steps,

1) Unzip the file,

2) execute the .bat file (I forgot the name)

3) press the white button on the rear of the HMS TWICE

4) hit return on your computer so the .bat file continues.

You should see some text updated in the window. After a few seconds you will get a message that the update is complete.

Unplug the HMS.

Let me say I "played" with the calibration and these are my recommendations.

First things:

1) make sure you can use the mouse in VR.. Miles has instructions..

2) Know how to use the Kneeboard.. It is helpful to have it activated with voice attack or a button push.

3) Download the PC mission

4) Do all of the IR survey stuff, etc

start:

1)Start your VR as normal. Select mission > PC mission

I think the mission aircraft is an F-18. I have that module but wonder if for someone who does not have can use this mission. You need to select pilot and OK. Watch your throttle. If it is on you will crash into the helio in front of you :doh:

At this point you are ready to start the calibration

1) remove the VR head gear,

2) put your glasses on :thumbup:

3) Plug in the HMS,

4) Put on the FCUs. Make sure the leds are pointed toward you and the buttons are in the proper position...they can go on many ways, but only one correct way. :doh:

5) power on the FCUs. Now is a good time to make sure the HMS can see FCUs by placing your hand in front of the VR headset and the HMS will go green.

6) take off your glasses and put them in a place you can find them. :doh:

7) put the VR headset back on.

Let's get started

A) Familiarize yourself where the buttons are on the HMS.

B) I found I could look past my nose to see the FCUs which was helpful later on to make sure you were pressing the correct button and finding the power button.

1) I don't know if it is necessary but I set the HMS to factory default by pushing the HMS front two black buttons and then the white button (Note from Miles spurred my thinking:))

2) Call up the kneeboard and get to the last page.

3) Press the right HMS button 5 seconds. Should see the cursor start to make a circle in front of you..

I am not going to reinvent the wheel here but the kneeboard instructions should get you thru the first part of the calibration.

It took me three days to get this far. I hope you get here sooner. I am taking a little breather for now but will continue.

later.

Excellent post :D

I think the mission aircraft is an F-18. I have that module but wonder if for someone who does not have can use this mission.

Thats a good point.. Perhapse a version using the TF51 would be a good idea so it'll work for everybody?

It took me three days to get this far. I hope you get here sooner. I am taking a little breather for now but will continue.

later.

Hey FarmerTom, great detailed walk through, thanks for sharing. Obviously, the last comment caught my attention. I sent you a PM with my home phone, when you get back to PointCTRL please give me a call and we can do the speaker phone thing while you set it up.

In its current state, PointCTRL can be challenging to set-up the first time, Just ask Mariner3302, he is always yelling at me to make it easier. I especially thank you for your last comment Tom. To paraphrase what I think your gentlemanly comment should have read. "This efing thing is to complicated, I spent three days and all I can see is a cursor moving in a efing circle"

For the 41 thru 50 group (that's Now Serving, not age) It will be a few days before we send out your invoices. I realized the documentation and videos are lacking, and I am going to spend the next day or two making videos and adding to the knee-boards.

Thanks for your patience,

Miles

the last comment caught my attention.

Miles

Please take no negativity from that comment, please.:( One of my problems was the "point to" instruction that I did not understand(refer to the dumb as dirt comment). I was looking for a second cursor to use to point. Now that I have gotten the basics things under control, it should go more smoothly.

Please feel free to use any of the info gathered from me in your instructions. :thumbup:

Pilots should like checklists..

Being able to read the instructions using kneeboard is very handy. My first day I was taking off the VR headset,putting on my glasses to read instructions..What a PIA. So first day I quit in frustration.

It would be nice if the kneeboard started with PC instructions, and moving to the next step did not mean moving to the previous kneeboard page.. (maybe I am dumb and Slow)

This is a new thing and we are all learning, lets use all of the synergy we can...:D It will benefit us all.

Got to go, Later.

Please take no negativity from that comment,

Not at all, which is why I included my lighthearted, but probably accurate paraphrase.

On a serious note to everyone, I am concerned that I am not getting enough negative or critical feedback. If something is frustrating you, or you don't like a feature, please PM me, or better yet, share it with the forum. If you are having an issue, someone else is probably having the same one.

I am not a professional programmer, engineer, or even that smart, (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night). which is why I value everyone's suggestions. I am just a retired Army Guy, and you would have to work pretty hard to offend me, unless of course you are just trying to be a dick. I am really just to ignorant to realize how difficult something can be before I take it on.

To quote an old Farmer named Tom "This is a new thing and we are all learning, lets use all of the synergy we can...:D It will benefit us all."

By the way FarmerTom, Your checklist suggestion is awesome, and I am on it Sir. This really is a community project.

Thanks,

Miles

Your checklist

A suggestion is to have "the list" with a page number for each item or other way to get to detail instruction on that step quickly...

step ? )Push HMS right button for 5 seconds....page 5

This starts the calibration mode.

Page 5 would have the image of the HMS with the buttons Identified and any other detailed info necessary.

Of course all if this is on the kneeboard.

Just thinking out loud, no need to respond, :huh:

On a serious note to everyone, I am concerned that I am not getting enough negative or critical feedback. If something is frustrating you, or you don't like a feature, please PM me, or better yet, share it with the forum. If you are having an issue, someone else is probably having the same one.

 

Thanks,

Miles

I'll try to provide full feedback when I get mine, without having viewed the new documents / procedures on how to calibrate things. Can't guarantee it will be critical though, may go perfectly smoothly and I'll have nothing but positive feedback. LOL

So to translate what Miles said - You can't fix what you don't know is broken. So if you are having an issue, speak up.

Now, having said that - The good idea fairy is a wonderful thing as long it doesn't interfere in the smooth roll-out of a product that is already fulfilling it's initial design concept and promises. At some point, hopefully soon, PC will be getting its own forum up and running. Wish lists, problems, instruction, etc... will have an organized place to be tracked and addressed.

Just to point something out to anyone not sure if this tech is as good as it sounds - Last night I jumped into the sim, got in the Tomcat, and started flipping switches... what the hell?? The switches aren't moving! Well, DAMN, I forgot to put the Finger Pistols on! That is a pretty cool thing and a good benchmark for what you are going to be able to do once you use it.

Hi,

I just got my PointCTRL today and am have read through the Instruction Manual ion Calibration. Let's Just say I'm Thick as A Brick.

My question is do you go through the calibration procedure twice, once for each FCU or just once?

ANohter question. IT is recommend to run in full screen. Is it necessary to do this each time you start DCS or is there a settingin DCS for this (besides the key stroke)

Another item of note. It is probably obvious to most, but I have learned it is best to point out the obvious. I would suggest adding in somewhere that the LEDs towards you and not the screen.

Also curious if mounting the HCU in front of the HMD was considered, similar to Track IR setup. I am sure there are pros and cons.

Looking forward to getting it up and running.!!

Hi,

 

I just got my PointCTRL today and am have read through the Instruction Manual ion Calibration. Let's Just say I'm Thick as A Brick.

 

My question is do you go through the calibration procedure twice, once for each FCU or just once?

 

ANohter question. IT is recommend to run in full screen. Is it necessary to do this each time you start DCS or is there a settingin DCS for this (besides the key stroke)

 

 

Another item of note. It is probably obvious to most, but I have learned it is best to point out the obvious. I would suggest adding in somewhere that the LEDs towards you and not the screen.

 

 

Also curious if mounting the HCU in front of the HMD was considered, similar to Track IR setup. I am sure there are pros and cons.

 

 

Looking forward to getting it up and running.!!

You just calibrate once. You are really calibrating the HMS not the FCU's

Full screen mode for this Firmware version, I will be releasing a new one tomorrow that works in windowed mode.

Good suggestion on FCU orientation, I will include a pic of them on my fat fingers.

If your using the Rift S, you can use it as is, to become familiar with it, and then calibrate.

Their are no pros to mounting the HMS like Track IR when using VR, but the con is it would not work. However, for fixed monitors that is how its done, Chic will be running it that way. Still have too experiment with the best fixed sensor position. It will probably be above and behind you.

I am almost done with the videos, they should help a lot.

Thanks and good luck.

Miles

my case was very special for still unknown reasons, so don t take this as standard, but

interestingly i already calibrated mine in windowed mode. fullscreen didnt work for me (i really tried that often enough without success, when i had the issues with the new firmware)

works like a charm since Miles integrated the vertical calibration into the firmware. at least for me

and with the reset function u are always able to go back to the standard calibration

Can someone remind me what are the optional spare parts we can add to the dorder in the 1st post ? I have trouble finding back the info in this long thread.

Btw MilesD I sent you a PM & an email

Can someone remind me what are the optional spare parts we can add to the dorder in the 1st post ? I have trouble finding back the info in this long thread.

 

Btw MilesD I sent you a PM & an email

Go to the first post on the first page. The spare parts list is with the ordering suggestion.

Will spare part ordering be left until the end of the list?