G overload damage

So I noticed the following in the patch notes:

Added damage as a result of an overload of G-forces

But this made me wonder: Is there even a configuration where this is possible in the F-16 ?

For example the limit at full fuel, 6x AAM & a pair of full 370 gal wing tanks is 6.5 G, but since all limits come with a 150% design safety factor that would mean you could safely hit up to 9.75 G's with this load out.

In other words I suppose you'd have to carry 2x 370's + 1x 300 and a heavy bomb load in order to even have a chance of exceeding the ultimate load limit of the F-16.

I guess it's a matter of real life VS. Sim.

On real flying you might face situations unexpected where you suddenly Crank the stick, the very same you step on your car brakes.

Also check Navy Vipers which lifespan was severed after some years of intensive ACM, with fuselage cracks and findings beyond repair

I loaded up the Viper with 6 amraams and 2 fuel tanks, with fumes for fuel so I could hit mach >1 and turned off GLOC effects and set the jet to CAT I & couldn't hear or see any signs of structural damage after pulling 9g at 500-600knots. Maybe the damage is in more extreme cases like dives from high altitude? Or maybe it's cumulative and requires more than a few minutes of high g turns?

What I did notice is that they fixed the drag model so the strange oscillations are gone and the Viper FM feels way more in line with what we see on youtube. However since the pilot faints when you get even close to 8g so you can't reenact RL sustained turns just yet unless you set G effects to "None". Maybe next patch they'll address the early GLOC issue?

In any case, this is definitely a move in the right direction. :thumbup:

It could be they mean damage to pylons/mechanisms/armament if you have bombs on and you over G the aircraft. The plane maybe fine but all the kit hanging off it suffers as well, might not release. It's not all about A/A... :music_whistling:

There are max speeds for certain loadouts as well, although I haven't seen any mention of that yet.

I loaded up the Viper with 6 amraams and 2 fuel tanks, with fumes for fuel so I could hit mach >1 and turned off GLOC effects and set the jet to CAT I & couldn't hear or see any signs of structural damage after pulling 9g at 500-600knots. Maybe the damage is in more extreme cases like dives from high altitude? Or maybe it's cumulative and requires more than a few minutes of high g turns?

 

What I did notice is that they fixed the drag model so the strange oscillations are gone and the Viper FM feels way more in line with what we see on youtube. However since the pilot faints when you get even close to 8g so you can't reenact RL sustained turns just yet unless you set G effects to "None". Maybe next patch they'll address the early GLOC issue?

 

In any case, this is definitely a move in the right direction. :thumbup:

Actually rudder oscillations are now very bad :(

Also when going for a 9 G break turn there's an odd break in G-onset rate at about 6 G's where the build up suddenly slows down momentarily (as if the pilot for a brief moment went from 100 to 75% stick back) only to then pick up again. This results in an odd rocking sensation in pitch, which even if slight is still very noticable and annoying. It seems esp. apparent in a clean aircraft above 470 kts, where in addition any rudder inputs also cause quite severe oscillations.

So I'm not really that fond of the FM atm :(

How fast are you going and what weight? I have to be going 850knots IAS with 10% fuel before I notice rudder instability and violent oscillations. Previously this could happen at 10% fuel and 550-600 knots. Right now I can stomp back and forth on the rudders at anything below 800 knots with bingo fuel and clean wings and the plane stabilizes itself very quickly. And any amount of typical weight load will damp any high speed oscillations allowing you more stability at speeds above 850.

With half fuel and clean wings, I have to reach 880 knots (mach 1.5) before it becomes susceptible to violent rudder inputs. It won't happen from simply using the rudder (which seems mostly inert on the F-16 except for use by the FCS). The manual says it's mostly used for drift and nosewheel steering. I've never found the rudder useful on the F-16 it in a turn, but maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Haven't noticed any input variance in pitch rates when pulling high or sudden Gs unless it's at low speed from higher alpha induced drag.

Here's a video showcasing the issue with pitch rate:

OVxjfuL3CnA

You'll note it slows down suddenly around 5.5 G's and then picks back up. This sudden up & down variance in pitch rate is very odd feeling.

Aside from this the overall onset rate is still slow, it taking several seconds to reach 9 G's, and it's still not possible to reach 9.3 G's in a level horizontal turn which the DFLCS should allow for. F-16 pilots also note that onset rate doesn't really slow until 8 G's in the real aircraft, which jives well with the DFLCS's 8.3 G law.

In order words, based on pilot accounts & DFLCS laws I'd expect a very fast onset rate up to ~8 G's and then a smooth slowing of rate until a max of 9.3 G's is reached.

Video of the rudder oscillation issue:

oJf4e2uFw8E

Clean jet, 22,000 lbs. As you can see they still happen at around 550-600 knots.

Ah yes, I see it now. Had to slow down the video to 0.25x to be sure. It's very subtle. Might be the FLCS acting up? Idk. It's still not the snappiest of planes in terms of alpha, but at least with the better drag modelling, it can sustain moderate speed turns better now without dropping like a rock quite as easily.

My top wish list items for the F16 are still delaying the GLOC onset and radar tracking for guns.

Ah yes, I see it now. Had to slow down the video to 0.25x to be sure. It's very subtle. Might be the FLCS acting up? Idk. It's still not the snappiest of planes in terms of alpha, but at least with the better drag modelling, it can sustain moderate speed turns better now without dropping like a rock quite as easily.

Yeah I honestly don't believe the real thing is bumpy in pitch like that, and it definitely doesn't take the real thing as long to reach 9+ G's as it does the DCS F-16 atm. So I really hope ED looks into this very hard with their SME's, which I also have full confidence they will ofcourse, it's just painful having to wait for the devs to give word on it.

So far I've talked to 3 different RL -16 pilots, and they all say onset rate is lightning fast up until ~8 G where it starts to slow down in order not to overshoot the 9.3 G limit. Never heard anyone say that pitch rate would oscillate.

My top wish list items for the F16 are still delaying the GLOC onset and radar tracking for guns.

Oh they are definitely also on my list of priorities, but my no.1 priority is always the flight model.

@syndrome,

Are you able to recreate the rudder oscillations too?

@syndrome,

 

Are you able to recreate the rudder oscillations too?

Only above 800 knots at sea level at 15C with 6% fuel at ~20700 lbs. And I really stomped on the rudders. Will try again tomorrow. It's possible you hit a strange resonance with the timing of the pulse and release. In any case, the jet seems to be significantly more stable at high speed than before, and a little less draggy at low speed. I will try to recreate the oscillations with your pedal timing tomorrow.

Only above 800 knots at sea level at 15C with 6% fuel at ~20700 lbs. And I really stomped on the rudders. Will try again tomorrow. It's possible you hit a strange resonance with the timing of the pulse and release. In any case, the jet seems to be significantly more stable at high speed than before, and a little less draggy at low speed. I will try to recreate the oscillations with your pedal timing tomorrow.

Ok, I had the aircraft at 22,000 lbs clean. Unlimited fuel on, 15 C std. atm.