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Is the F-15 really that good


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how can fa-18 sustain higher aoa when it is a much draggier and lower twr design?

better authority at higher aoa is not to be conflated with the ability to maintain high aoa

From what I've read on the F18, at high AOA those long strakes up to the cockpit induce vortex flow over the wings - keeping the air attached , and not stalling the wing (vs no strakes).


Edited by ACME_Widgets
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From what I've read on the F18, at high AOA those long strakes up to the cockpit induce vortex flow over the wings - keeping the air attached , and not stalling the wing (vs no strakes).

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Digital radar with very stable lock, very easy to use and interpret in complicated dynamic situation with many enemy and allied planes in the air.

NCTR IFF so independent BVR RoE.

9G maneuverability.

Trained E-3 Sentry close cooperation.

Far better T/W than F-14A and there were only 70 F-14B compared to 700 F-14A.

 

That's why during Desert Storm Eagles scored nearly all air kills when Tomcats didn't. It was more complicated than that and involved USAF vs. Navy rivalry and integration with joint command, but still. Really interesting topic BTW when you go into details.

 

Long story short Eagle was crucial for USAF and Tomcat was just one of many assets for Navy that's why Eagles were constantly receiving newest digital toys and very good engines when Tomcats being neglected.

With it's analog avionics Tomcat were great to solve simple problems during Navy cover interceptions over the see but it would be very problematic to use them in BVR under any RoE.

 

Both were beautiful birds but really different roles, Tomcat for long range BVR interceptions in simple RoE, Eagle for air combat against enemy fighters of symmetrical opponent like USSR in Europe.

 

 

Why are you neglecting the F-14D ?

 

Also 9 G maneuverability only gets you so far, esp. if we introduce heaters where a quick min radius turn followed by the ability to sustain a high rate at medium to low speed becomes important, and the Cat beats the F-15 in this respect. This is one of the reasons even the F-14A generally came off better in WVR fights between the two in the beginning.

 

Besides the F-14 was designed with the same ultimate load limit as the F-15, hence what'ever G the Eagle pulls the Tomcat can match it and sustain no damage. The 7.5 and later 6.5 G operational limit imposed on the Tomcat was there to prolong airframe life due to the much higher daily stresses faced by a carrier operated fighter and the fact that each Cat had to last a lot longer than expected due to purchases being cut short. In terms of design the airframe was stressed tested to 13+ G before something broke, and in service there were many instances where it was taken above 10 G, with 'Okie' Nancy famously hitting 12.5 G by accident once, and yet not a single sign of stress damage was found afterwards.

 

 

Finally the Iranians were pretty clear about why they chose the F-14 over the F-15, and better agility was one of the reasons:

wkMF4B3.jpg

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Superior radar and optimization for the transonic envelope make it possibly the best BVR platform of its era. Add to that the perfectly adequate close quarters capabilities of the platform and the superb training of her crews and yes, she is that good.

 

If only we had a level of simulation of this bird that would resemble what HB did for the F-14..... just learning all the ways and mods in which the radar could be used would be like a wet dream.

 

His post was not about radar or the training of its crews.

 

The flaming cliffs F15 is the only jet in the game that can do 12+ g break turns repeatedly without risk of structural failure. F14 pilots try to follow them and their wings come off.

 

The usual white knights will dismiss it or say it is not a big deal, but the fact remains.

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Finally the Iranians were pretty clear about why they chose the F-14 over the F-15, and better agility was one of the reasons:

 

Иранцы - плохой пример поскольку выбор пал на Ф-14 чисто из-за обмана шаха во время показательных полетов со стороны грумман

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The premis that "feel" is a substitute for scanning the accelerometer for G control is inaccurate. The idea that G tolerances are only for time-life fatigue mitigation is inaccurate. Brand new aircraft have been rendered unflyable due to broken or deformed parts after a single non catastrophic over G. The damage model in the game is lacking. Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, will the DCS community come to terms with this reality regarding over G once and for all.

 

Nazgul hit the nail on the head ..... all this mental jujitsu, to some how rationalize playing the game in such away that is literally unrealistic, claiming it mitigates the inherent flaws of a program on a computer, now some how becomes more realistic is utterly ridiculous. Gamers are cherry picking what they believe is a more important "realistic " concept that should be implemented, doing so simply because it facilitates how they play the game, then masking it as a pursuit of "realisum" ..

 

There. And make no mistake that anyone who defends the status quo because "some F15 pilots have over g'd their jet before" is over g'ing his jet as a matter of course in the simulation. Why wouldn't you? There is zero chance of structural damage.

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There. And make no mistake that anyone who defends the status quo because "some F15 pilots have over g'd their jet before" is over g'ing his jet as a matter of course in the simulation. Why wouldn't you? There is zero chance of structural damage.

 

No, what will happen is that the aircraft will be able to be over-g'd to 12g without structural damage if the DM is made right for short transients, at suitable gross weights.

 

You're still going to see eagles pull 10g+.

 

But I certainly agree that the current trend of people hauling a several second 12g+ turn with tanks and all kinds of other things on is due to lack of DM which should certainly lead to disintegration (and AFAIK has done so IRL in one case for which there is no good public documentation unfortunately).

 

The highest known recorded G by a real eagle is 12.5G for several seconds and while this aircraft did not disintegrate, it could no longer be used and was turned into a museum piece.

 

Other over-g's to 12g (very infrequent) had the aircraft returned to service but those were very transient excursions and again a whole bunch of fuel had probably been consumed already, so GW was probably under 42000lbs but overall such over-g are very infrequent and very discouraged. A good DM should help here.


Edited by GGTharos

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His post was not about radar or the training of its crews.

 

The flaming cliffs F15 is the only jet in the game that can do 12+ g break turns repeatedly without risk of structural failure. F14 pilots try to follow them and their wings come off.

 

The usual white knights will dismiss it or say it is not a big deal, but the fact remains.

 

If read closely:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi - I know that the F-15 has a kill ratio of more than 100 to nil. So it must be pretty good. But I am used to playing the F-14 and the F-18. I just started playing the F-15 for fun and damn - fast, incredible acceleration and maneuverability. Basically way more impressive than the F-14 or F-18 by far! Is it just because the modelling on this airplane is terrible and OP or is the F-15 really that good in real life?

 

Superior radar and optimization for the transonic envelope make it possibly the best BVR platform of its era. Add to that the perfectly adequate close quarters capabilities of the platform and the superb training of her crews and yes, she is that good.

 

If only we had a level of simulation of this bird that would resemble what HB did for the F-14..... just learning all the ways and mods in which the radar could be used would be like a wet dream.

 

What i would say is, his post wasn't about the 12+ g in the F-15, but it's power, maneuverability and overall performance. Now you may have unresolved issues with the plane, but that still doesn't make any of the above mentioned qualities non-valid. :thumbup:

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