There appears to be a defect in Clear Trim (ctrl + T) - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 09-01-2019, 06:11 PM   #11
Reticuli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang View Post
Perhaps you should just try it out without several home-brewn scripts of automatisation. That sort of modification is notorious for introducing some 'lag' either by adding actual latency or by trying to buffer things that aren't supposed to be buffered.
Happens independent of "several home-brewn scripts of automatisation".
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli View Post
Try holding a physical joystick position (very still or with same pressure) when you do it while in flight.
If you hold a position while pressing reset trim, the trim will reset back to the center position, then your input is added to that. This happens in one step, so it won't jump back to center before applying your input:



I'm not sure what you mean by wobble.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma13 View Post
If you hold a position while pressing reset trim, the trim will reset back to the center position, then your input is added to that. This happens in one step, so it won't jump back to center before applying your input:



I'm not sure what you mean by wobble.
In flight, not on the ground. Clear the trim. Then hold the stick in a position or at a constant pressure. Wait for the aircraft to stabilize. Clear trim again while still holding that joystick position/pressure. I'm curious why the aircraft is wobbling or acting like it's got a slight change in control input when you clear trim again. Perhaps CTRL + T is resetting the SAS or there's a lag between the virtual cyclic returning to center and the sim re-detecting the physical joystick.
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Last edited by Reticuli; 09-02-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:04 PM   #14
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Just did a 2 minute test on this:

Using the trim reset will also send your current attitude to the autopilot (just like using the normal trim). This can be observed by engaging flight director, going into a turn and then resetting the trim. The "flight director bars" on the HUD will be at an angle.

So, if you're sitting on the ground and use the reset, your flight controls will be in the default state. I'm 100% sure THIS is the intended use and nothing else, so there isn't any defect.

But I have to ask: Why would you even need to reset your trim?

In the Ka-50 you hold the trimmer, get to the desired heading/attitude and release. This is what you should be doing and unless you seriously messed up your trim there should never be a necessity to reset it. I haven't used the reset once in flight ever and I've been flying this thing for many years.

If you depend on the trim reset you're doing it wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if that's related to your mystical auto-trimmer script.

Last edited by fudabidu; 09-07-2019 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fudabidu View Post
Just did a 2 minute test on this:

Using the trim reset will also send your current attitude to the autopilot (just like using the normal trim). This can be observed by engaging flight director, going into a turn and then resetting the trim. The "flight director bars" on the HUD will be at an angle.

So, if you're sitting on the ground and use the reset, your flight controls will be in the default state. I'm 100% sure THIS is the intended use and nothing else, so there isn't any defect.

But I have to ask: Why would you even need to reset your trim?

In the Ka-50 you hold the trimmer, get to the desired heading/attitude and release. This is what you should be doing and unless you seriously messed up your trim there should never be a necessity to reset it. I haven't used the reset once in flight ever and I've been flying this thing for many years.

If you depend on the trim reset you're doing it wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if that's related to your mystical auto-trimmer script.
Thank you.

Not sure why you're still mentioning anything about being on the ground.

"If you depend on the trim reset you're doing it wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if that's related to your mystical auto-trimmer script."

I'm not. It's not. You're missing the point.

"Using the trim reset will also send your current attitude to the autopilot (just like using the normal trim)."

That doesn't seem to be what ought to be happening.

One does not need to clear trim a second time. I just randomly did it and found it still caused a wobble in flight with the stick pressure held constant, like something else was going on other than actually just clearing the in-sim manual trim state. This will also occur with the Joystick Without Springs and FFB trimmer mode when your big pro cyclic physically holds a position. This appears to possibly be just a minor bug, but I wanted see if other people could replicate it before saying so in the bug section.
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Last edited by Reticuli; 09-07-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:46 PM   #16
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Reticuli, try your script with all autopilot/stabilization channels disabled, to see if you can for sure eliminate any autopilot/stabilization inputs from adversely affecting your Kamov.
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomTOTEN View Post
Reticuli, try your script with all autopilot/stabilization channels disabled, to see if you can for sure eliminate any autopilot/stabilization inputs from adversely affecting your Kamov.
Are you saying you want me to turn GlovePIE on and test it with the Ka-50 SAS channels all off? Because I've repeatedly mentioned in this thread that I've replicated this without the scripts active.
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Last edited by Reticuli; 09-08-2019 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:35 PM   #18
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OK so... when you trim from an attitude that hasn't quite reached equilibrium the AP channels will hold up to I think it's 20% deflection from the trimmed spot in order to maintain attitude.

When you press trim again, that "offset" hold will be released and the control surfaces will hop back to exactly where the trimmed location is.

I'd bet this is your issue.

Also... Stop using the trim reset that way. It's not designed to work that way, nobody uses it that way. even if it IS a bug... I don't personally think it's worth addressing. I don't actually think I've EVER used trim reset. Not even once.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:52 AM   #19
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I can confirm that there's something funky going on with trim reset. I have my joystick set to Joystick Without Springs and FFB, in an auto-hover pressing trim reset will cause the helicopter to change its position slightly without any input:



It's more obvious when flying forward. Without any input, pressing trim reset will cause the helicopter to bob:



Because I'm on Joystick Without Springs and FFB mode, pressing trim reset theoretically shouldn't do anything because there's no trim that needs resetting, yet something is happening. So there indeed appears to be an issue with trim reset.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:16 PM   #20
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Hmm... I still say it's the AP channel authority offset being temporarily removed.

In AH... When you set a location, the trim doesn't hold the control surfaces where they are like "trim" would normally... It moves the control surfaces around to keep the airframe where it is.

When you press trim reset it temporarily removes all AP applied control input from the trim system, then allows the trim systems to catch the airframe and attempt to keep it where it's at.

When in steady state flight the same is true aside from the fact that it's attempting to maintain a flight envelope instead of an attitude. Normal trim maintains an "attitude". KA-50 trim maintains a flight envelope.

To do so... It allows the trim systems (or more correctly the AP channels) to exert a specific amount of control authority as an "offset" to the trimmed stick position vs. flight envelope.


Maybe I'm confused as to how it works, though I'm pretty sure I'm not, but it makes perfect sense that the KA-50 does this when trim reset is pressed... IF... your initial trim is not perfect AND there have been no environmental change (wind etc) since you trimmed. IMO it's basically impossible to get a "perfect trim". And... the examples in the videos are basically creating the perfect setup to make this happen if the trim system works as I understand it does.
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Last edited by M1Combat; 09-12-2019 at 11:36 PM.
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