SD-10 giving TWS lock indications

I am glad I have not spent so much time online the past few months, but if I had I would really Be wondering about the honor of some of my opppments, if they were aware they could know every TWS launch.

Lol

Right now you can use SD-10 like SARH and launch it under 10nm beyond that really small chance to hit.

i would expect rwr warnings for a tws track too though, unless i misunderstood what you're saying?

 

 

the rwr should produce warnings when it detects emr - it should produce a tone if it's tracked using tws (e.g. square or sine-ish waveform), a tracking warning if the aircraft is continuously illuminated, a missile launch if it picks up the radar signalling to an amraam datalink etc

what ? are u saying that TWS warning is real ? if i understand u wrong correct me but if i understand u right

u are wrong cuz u have been locked in TWS and yet u are getting a track warning once the missile shoot in TWS its stay in track profile cuz missile is not seeing u and been guided by track profile that aircraft radar is building that is the whole idea about TWS ( track while scan ) there is no way RWR will know that missile launched at u until the missile lock u with his own radar and that is in pitbull stage before that missile is not sending any radar signal unless your RWR is reading IR signals

you mean Launch Warning,

UBOATS meant lock warning (i.e. constant illumination / tracking) - a radar warning receiver on it's own can't detect missile launches unless it picks up on the electromagnetic radiation for the missile guidance (fox1 or 3 etc - nowdays it's more common for the rwr to be part of a larger integrated defensive subsystem, including missile warning systems etc)

Yes but you can’t pickup a missile fired in TWS until the last 10nm or so when the missile starts emitting it’s own pulse. But in this case the F-18 and F-16 You get a missile launch warning as soon as it has been fired even tho it’s 60nm away, but ONLY for the SD-10 so they can start defending 60miles away. I did a lot of testing and it always picked up a SD-10 launch up to 59nm away. Which is just completely wrong. But it is really really weird that this is a precise bug that only affects F-18 and F-16. No other aircraft pick it up until Pitbull which is about 10nm away. If it was RWR issue then they would pickup all missiles as soon as launched but they don’t only SD-10, if it was SD-10 bug then ALL aircraft would pickup SD-10 as soon as it has been launched but no other aircraft does. If this was the other way around ED would have had a hotfix our the next day.

you can pick up the guidance signal if you're lucky - not sure if that's modelled in DCS. I'm not disputing that instant launch warnings are probably a bug

what ? are u saying that TWS warning is real ? if i understand u wrong correct me but if i understand u right

 

u are wrong cuz u have been locked in TWS and yet u are getting a track warning once the missile shoot in TWS its stay in track profile cuz missile is not seeing u and been guided by track profile that aircraft radar is building that is the whole idea about TWS ( track while scan ) there is no way RWR will know that missile launched at u until the missile lock u with his own radar and that is in pitbull stage before that missile is not sending any radar signal unless your RWR is reading IR signals

not sure if i'm following - a radar in TWS still illuminates a target with emr, so the target should get some kind of rwr warning for the threat if the rwr is not from the stone age - tws is just a type of 'multitasking' where the radar splits a percentage of it's time making sure the target is where it's expected to be, based on algorithms predicting it's location using previous vectors stored in memory, and looking out for other targets. Also i think we're agreeing that the rwr can only know about a missile headed your way if it picks up relevant EMR (e.g. sarh or guidance signalling etc)

I am glad I have not spent so much time online the past few months, but if I had I would really Be wondering about the honor of some of my opppments, if they were aware they could know every TWS launch.

Lol

Right now you can use SD-10 like SARH and launch it under 10nm beyond that really small chance to hit.

I should’ve said public PVP. I have done online sessions with my friends and I have been getting +37nm kills all the time, no issues. Against experienced players, I have been able to get 20nm kills easy, as long as I’m high and fast enough.

It’s based on Sparrow body so it doesn’t have low altitude gliding performance as AMRAAM which has a smaller more aerodynamic body, SD-10 is more optimized for mid to high altitudes, like AMRAAM the tested range is at 10000 meters and Mach 1.2

I should’ve said public PVP. I have done online sessions with my friends and I have been getting +37nm kills all the time, no issues. Against experienced players, I have been able to get 20nm kills easy, as long as I’m high and fast enough.

 

It’s based on Sparrow body so it doesn’t have low altitude gliding performance as AMRAAM which has a smaller more aerodynamic body, SD-10 is more optimized for mid to high altitudes, like AMRAAM the tested range is at 10000 meters and Mach 1.2

I find the SD-10 still fairly good also. When that RWR thing goes away You should be getting reasonable kill rates.

I find the SD-10 still fairly good also. When that RWR thing goes away You should be getting reasonable kill rates.

its if u are high once u entered the second stage in BVR or third one and started to fly low u can't shoot outside 10nm area he can crank the missile the drage value in low alt a bit high i dont know about the real missile and how can SD-10 fly in low alt .. lets wait to see what will happen when we got the new API ( If we got it this year )

its if u are high once u entered the second stage in BVR or third one and started to fly low u can't shoot outside 10nm area he can crank the missile the drage value in low alt a bit high i dont know about the real missile and how can SD-10 fly in low alt .. lets wait to see what will happen when we got the new API ( If we got it this year )

Don’t hold too much hope on the API changing that, it will likely always be draggy at low altitude, just like AIM-7 and R-77 of the same diameter and approximate length. The range performance is very close, as we’ve seen it’s too draggy at transonic speeds but I don’t think more CFDs or API will fix that(hope to be wrong). The API will make it maneuver more realistically, and perhaps the mid course autopilot will allow better energy retention as we have seen with AMRAAM

:smilewink:

I am glad I have not spent so much time online the past few months, but if I had I would really Be wondering about the honor of some of my opppments, if they were aware they could know every TWS launch.

 

Ali has been letting us know for a while but I almost didn’t think it could happen, that someone would tell us and not just be omnipotent during BVR

Just my 2c but I think 99% of players will encounter this and legit think the JF STT locked them, I dont think they would be aware that the JF is actually in TWS. I really dont think this is an issue of people noticing and not reporting just to gain an advantage. Youd need a squadron environment (specifically a squad that flys the JF a lot) with constant missile testing to really specifically notice this, nothing like on an aiqruake server.

Just my 2c but I think 99% of players will encounter this and legit think the JF STT locked them, I dont think they would be aware that the JF is actually in TWS. I really dont think this is an issue of people noticing and not reporting just to gain an advantage. Youd need a squadron environment (specifically a squad that flys the JF a lot) with constant missile testing to really specifically notice this, nothing like on an aiqruake server.

Yeah, you’re probably right. Everyone probably just went cold and felt they got really good at dodging missiles:megalol:

Don’t hold too much hope on the API changing that, it will likely always be draggy at low altitude, just like AIM-7 and R-77 of the same diameter and approximate length. The range performance is very close, as we’ve seen it’s too draggy at transonic speeds but I don’t think more CFDs or API will fix that(hope to be wrong). The API will make it maneuver more realistically, and perhaps the mid course autopilot will allow better energy retention as we have seen with AMRAAM

who said i am waiting for the new API i already adapted i am not that one who will stop cuz some issues need to be fixed i can show what i do in BF if u like

:smilewink:

and BTW if u want i can send u some 40nm kills and not just one

Do we know if the F-18 and F-16 RWR has been fixed and stopped picking up the SD-10 as soon as it’s launched?

Do we know if the F-18 and F-16 RWR has been fixed and stopped picking up the SD-10 as soon as it’s launched?

no it hasnt.

no it hasnt.

Darn, well maybe next patch hopefully

Darn, well maybe next patch hopefully

Now, I think it's happening with the F15 RWR too.

I can confirm we still have the RWR signal for each SD10 launch on TWS with the F-16 and F/A-18.

anything fixed after 26/8 patch ?

Negativ :(

have you tried TWS hornet by other modules, like M2000C/hornet and F-15C?

ED has NEVER fixed bugs like this quickly. That F-18 radar bug took MONTHS to be fixed. Nobody was whining every patch because it wasnt fixed when they wanted. Making up conspiracy theories just make this look like you expect the game to revolve around your favorite third party aircraft. Be patient and wait, like everyone else has been for the other aircraft. It took, what, years to get the AMRAAM fixed? Meanwhile you guys got realistic SD-10s just a few months after release. This has nothing to do with ED "not caring" or nerfing 3rd parties.

let's test more and see what's the root cause

since only 16/18 has launch warning when 17 tws launch

16/18 has no launch warning when 14 tws launch

other aircraft has no launch warning when 17 tws launch

we haven't changed sd-10 for more than two months, and this seems to be appeared in July update

we need to test more to make a conclusion

Also question for deka: do you guys actually model the datalink signal for inertial guidance, or is this simply something that wouldnt be possible in DCS

Also question for deka: do you guys actually model the datalink signal for inertial guidance, or is this simply something that wouldnt be possible in DCS

yes, we do. There's API in SDK. and we used that.

yup, we guess that could be the problem.

Any news so far?

Any news so far?

with more test, should be something wrong not caused by us

reported to ED and ED's working on it.