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Carpet bombing?


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Has anyone been successful with getting the B-17's to actually carpet bomb anything. I set up a series of about 20 warehouses and factories. I sent out 12, B-17's fully loaded and gave them all the "WWII carpet bombing" command in the mission editor. They went to the target area, once over the target area, they opened up their bomb bay doors and dropped one bomb each and headed for home. So I did the same mission and gave the command "bombing" or something like that and the first B-17 in each squad dropped all of it's bombs and they all headed home.

Any one had any better luck than I have with this.

 

On a funny side note. On the same mission, I sent along some P-51's loaded with 500 lb bombs and was pretty amused when they were dropping their bombs from 18000 ft. level. I just thought "Wow......a Norton bomb sight in a P-51. Who knew.

In that same set of missions, I set out 8 Tiger tanks and set the p-51's with unlimited ammo and it took more than 48, 500 lb. bombs to destroy only 8 tanks. Many of them took direct hits from a 500 lb bomb with minimal damage.

I think maybe ED might want to take a look at the damage models for those German tanks again. I mentioned this before and I keep trying out new things but those German tanks outlast even the most modern Russian tanks against bombs and rockets.

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Getting it to work is restricted to very narrow parameters, but it works Firstly, make your waypoints into the target area completely in line with each other. Also, make the bombing triangle that appears at the waypoint you set to "ww2 carpet bombing" forward of that waypoint and still in line with the flight path. I've noticed that if the flight paths are misaligned in any way, the bombers get a little wonky or they just circle around before actually bombing. Make sure that every bomber has a full complement of iron bombs. Make sure you set the type of bomb to drop to "iron bombs" and the release quantity "rel" to all bombs. I typically set for every waypoint a formation of ww2 bomber element(the closest formation) in advanced options, and for that bombing waypoint I set it to "ww2carpet bombing", set the triangle forward of that waypoint on the target, but still in line with the flight path, load all my bombers with their full complement of iron bombs.

 

I build the larger formation from there, by just adding additional bomber elements. However, the larger the Wing becomes the more wonky things get, but they still - not so elegantly - release all their bombs on the target area.

 

It sounds like you've gotten them set up right. If they are releasing one bomb then it sounds like you may not have the type of bomb or the release quantity set properly for that waypoint. I'd double check that for each bomber.

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I've used it too with an 18 ship formation at the railroad yard at La Havre, its pretty impressive. set weapons free and no reaction for all waypoints, and bombs dropped per pass to all, and passes to 1( if not done by default) and put the pointer arrow where you want them to bomb. I usually make the target the next waypoint after the waypoint option.

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You can also select the distance you want the bombs to cover. If you make it long they will drop the bombs slowly one at a time, if you set it closer they will drop them much faster.

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I got the bombers to drop on a target using all of the suggestios above but as I was watching the lead bomber open his bay doors, I noticed that none of the others were opening theirs. Then, when the bombs began falling out of the lead bomber, the others were dropping theirs as well, but through closed doors :(. Oh well, it's still an Alpha. I have noticed though, that a flight of AI FW's were weaving down the taxiway towards the runway!:thumbup:

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Make sure that every bomber has a full complement of iron bombs.

 

That's the step I don't know how to do. The weapon screen load out is blank and the weight of weapons is 0?

 

Which menu is used to ensure the bomber is fully loaded?

 

Cheers.

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Ummmm... at the bottom of the Payload screen are buttons for adding additional payloads :thumbup:

 

Add one with the bombs :music_whistling:

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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Ummmm... at the bottom of the Payload screen are buttons for adding additional payloads :thumbup:

 

Add one with the bombs :music_whistling:

 

 

 

Yes thanks, got it now.

 

 

I followed all the instructions here, alas.....

 

 

Bombers still overfly the target without dropping a single bomb.

 

 

Still, they look nice and are great for target practise, they don't even shoot back!

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Search User Files for "herky" for my uploaded missions. My flight sim videos on You Tube. https://www.youtube.com/user/David Herky

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Yes thanks, got it now.

 

 

I followed all the instructions here, alas.....

 

 

Bombers still overfly the target without dropping a single bomb.

 

 

Still, they look nice and are great for target practise, they don't even shoot back!

 

 

Yeah.....This may have something to do with your particular DCS download. I have noticed that different people's downloads act and react differently to each one's scenarios.

For me, the carpet bombing works, but only 1 of the for bombers in any given group will drop it's load. The other three will simply fly over the target area in formation. Sometimes it's the 2nd bomber that does it and sometimes it's the 3rd, but never more than one on any group.

I set up a mission where I just gave the command "bombing" to 10 different bombers, set up each bomber as it's own group with full loads, and assigned each a cluster of buildings to target and that worked much better than using the "WWII carpet bombing" command for me. It was much more accurate. However, out of the 10 planes, only 7 actually dropped any of their load on the first run. When I re-ran the mission, only 6 of the 10 dropped any bombs.

I think that it is very much a hit or miss with this early alpha release. But then, there has never really been very much success with IA performing specific tasks in much of DCS as far back as I can remember. IA is just a problematic issue. I'm kind of torn about whether it's actually worth the effort. On the one hand, elaborate IA that truly thinks for itself, has an accurate flight and damage model, and follows every command correctly will certainly have a huge impact on your game and it's overall performance. On the other hand, IA have always been a source of frustration and sometimes misery for gamers of all genres and games in general.

So it's a matter of living with the trade off. And not at all worth complaining about because it's just an unfortunate part of gaming. Not that I'm accusing anyone of complaining. :smilewink:


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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Yes thanks, got it now.

 

 

I followed all the instructions here, alas.....

 

 

Bombers still overfly the target without dropping a single bomb.

 

 

Still, they look nice and are great for target practise, they don't even shoot back!

Something not mentioned in this thread but pointed out by Capt.Orso in another is setting your bombing point distance from target. Of course this can vary but 2.7 miles from target worked for me.

 

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Yeah.....This may have something to do with your particular DCS download. I have noticed that different people's downloads act and react differently to each one's scenarios.

For me, the carpet bombing works, but only 1 of the for bombers in any given group will drop it's load. The other three will simply fly over the target area in formation. Sometimes it's the 2nd bomber that does it and sometimes it's the 3rd, but never more than one on any group.

I set up a mission where I just gave the command "bombing" to 10 different bombers, set up each bomber as it's own group with full loads, and assigned each a cluster of buildings to target and that worked much better than using the "WWII carpet bombing" command for me. It was much more accurate. However, out of the 10 planes, only 7 actually dropped any of their load on the first run. When I re-ran the mission, only 6 of the 10 dropped any bombs.

I think that it is very much a hit or miss with this early alpha release. But then, there has never really been very much success with IA performing specific tasks in much of DCS as far back as I can remember. IA is just a problematic issue. I'm kind of torn about whether it's actually worth the effort. On the one hand, elaborate IA that truly thinks for itself, has an accurate flight and damage model, and follows every command correctly will certainly have a huge impact on your game and it's overall performance. On the other hand, IA have always been a source of frustration and sometimes misery for gamers of all genres and games in general.

So it's a matter of living with the trade off. And not at all worth complaining about because it's just an unfortunate part of gaming. Not that I'm accusing anyone of complaining. :smilewink:

 

 

 

I've postponed escort mission development for the reasons above. However, I do have a technique for formation carpet bombing. Its heavy on lua but extremely reliable. Using MOOSE, I programmatically spawn the bomber box in formation using a single bomber template. This forces each bomber on the exact same heading. Each bomber is its own group and has its own set of orders. In the ME, I only need to set the target zone and specify a range to target. All aim points and spawn points are computed relative to target zone. I don't mess with the formation/follow functions. Paired with the No Reaction to Threat Option, bombs are dropped 100% of the time even in the presence of engaged enemy fighters. An impressive scene!

 

 

But this is a compromise solution... The box can't maneuver, turn, or fight back. I just wish the AI Fighters would more intelligently attack the box (Right now, they match speeds and slowly creep up on the box's 6). I can't think of a compelling co-op escort mission without more realistic AI interceptors using high speed attacks.

 

 

I'm happy to provide source, but its a mess at the moment. Note, I haven't tested the other solutions here - they may be superior.

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That's the step I don't know how to do. The weapon screen load out is blank and the weight of weapons is 0?

 

Which menu is used to ensure the bomber is fully loaded?

 

Cheers.

 

It's not an advanced waypoint option. Its a load out option on the load out screen from the B17. You will see a single bomb station marked "1". Right click that, and it should bring up a pulldown menu with a few selectable options, one of which is 12 AN? bombs. Click that option for each bomber. If when you right click you on't get a menu, just create a new load out profile, then it should work.

 

You still have to select iron bombs and the release quantity for the waypoint in the advanced waypoint options, but you have to have physically loaded the ordinances form the weapons load out screen into the bomb bay of each bomber. Apologize if I failed to state that in my earlier post.

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It's not an advanced waypoint option. Its a load out option on the load out screen from the B17. You will see a single bomb station marked "1". Right click that, and it should bring up a pulldown menu with a few selectable options, one of which is 12 AN? bombs. Click that option for each bomber. If when you right click you on't get a menu, just create a new load out profile, then it should work.

 

You still have to select iron bombs and the release quantity for the waypoint in the advanced waypoint options, but you have to have physically loaded the ordinances form the weapons load out screen into the bomb bay of each bomber. Apologize if I failed to state that in my earlier post.

 

That's fine, got it thanks.

 

And thanks guys for some heads up.

 

I can not get any bombs to release using Carpet Bombing. I will try the other options. Assigning specific targets might work? At least the formations work as per the menu items. Separation is vital. I got them all too close at first and the collisions were aweful to watch! That being said, collisions in WW2 formations were a reality. Also bombs dropping on aircraft that got out of formation!

 

As a "cheat", purely for cinematic effects, I use a target zone and a trigger zone. When/if the B-17's make it over the target, a set number of buildings explode! No where as good as proper bombing, but the visuals are good!:smilewink:

 

Those new explosion effects are rather good!:D

 

Tally Ho!

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Search User Files for "herky" for my uploaded missions. My flight sim videos on You Tube. https://www.youtube.com/user/David Herky

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Every bomber has to have bombs loaded, as per above. When adding the very first bomber, add the bombs.

 

You only have to create the Payload once. Once created, it is in the ME until deleted, and can be used anytime you add B-17's to a mission.

 

After adding the very first bomber with a bomb payload, simply increase the number of units in the group to 3 or 4 (what ever your preference) in the ME.

 

Now you can copy this group to create the other groups, if you wish, and all of them will have bombs.

 

You MUST give every group the Advanced (Waypoint Action) WW2 Carpet bombing manually. Only groups with the AWA task will bomb.

 


Edited by Captain Orso

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System Specs.

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
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so i got the bombers up in formation but not all groups drop the load on the carpet bombing wp, mission file is attached.

 

any suggestions?

 

Each group must have the AWA task for carpet bombing added and configured correctly. Groups without the task will simply fly along.

 

also the bombing doors only open on the leader.

 

UOwN2y4.jpg

 

It's still WIP. I'm sure ED will fix this in due time.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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*ahem* you said, ".. but not all groups drop the load ..", and then noted that all the bombers in the one group dropped their bombs, but only the lead bomber opened its bomb bay doors, so what is your issue again?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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*ahem* you said, ".. but not all groups drop the load ..", and then noted that all the bombers in the one group dropped their bombs, but only the lead bomber opened its bomb bay doors, so what is your issue again?

 

i added the mission file if u want to check it out. i mixed up groups and wings. so only two of the three wings dropped bombs...

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Contrary to what was posted in the latest newsletter, from my experience, the AWA task for carpet bombing is not inherited from the leader to attached sub-groups within a box-formation, so I would hardly expect it to be inherited by sub-wings either.

 

I will have a look at it again though.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
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First off, what in Real-Life™ would be a flight is an Airplane Group, or simply group, in the ME.

 

2. You have 4 groups, of which 2 have Country UK and 2 Country USA. Whether this has an affect on the way things work I don't know, but there's no reason for having mixed factions, so that should be fixed.

 

3. Your first group has Pos_In_Box Right, which is wrong. Since your first group "New Airplane Group" is you lead group it's Pos_In_Box is Leader.

 

4. All the other groups are at least following the correct group: GROUP New Airplane Group, but they all have Pos_In_Box is Leader. I'm surprised they didn't all just fly into each other and crash and burn.

 

5. The last waypoint you created is the carpet bombing waypoint. I'm surprised that it worked at all, but it did, although two of the other groups turned off to head for god only knows. But the two remaining groups did continue on to target and both groups dropped their bombs. Apparently that did work as described in the last newsletter.

 

I've fixed everything I mentioned above and ran the mission. All groups dropped their bombs. If you allow Labels and turn them on you can easily see that all bombers in all groups drop their bombs.

Normandy B17G Test 02 by rogonaut.miz

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When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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