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Index vs Reverb


p1t1o

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no disresepect, but <groooooaaan> lol!

 

 

was gonna say "back OT" but theres literally no new news yet, on either headset.

 

 

 

whoa-this-vr-is-so-realistic-you-will-never-be-32019234.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

***EDIT***

 

 

Oh, Ive got a question - so I had a Vive pro. The Index has the same resolution, but increased FOV, which means larger viewable area.

 

What does that mean for perceived resolution on a pixels-per-degree basis? Will it essentially be lower? Or is it something like less "dead space" on the screen?

 

 

 

Right now nobody knows because no one has posted a direct side by side comparison (probably due to NDA). LCD may have better perceived resolution vs OLED for due to more fill-in pixels, but that may or may not apply to higher-res screen on VR headsets (have we seen any 1st gen MWR LCD headset being touted as having superior image quality compared to the Samsung Odessey's OLED screen?). However, I do know for sure that when it comes to a 4K TV I would take an OLED TV over LCD one everytime.

 

PPD alone might not be an ideal way to compare perceived resolution, because your FOV changes depend on how close your eyes are to the screens while the amount of pixels remains fixed. Further more, the Index screens are also canted a bit and both of these tricks are used to increased FOV slightly. A more accurate measurement in my mind might be the PPD normalized by the eye-to-screen distance.

 

When I get my unit, I’ll definitely be doing a lot of testings vs my Vive Pro since I’m fairly interested in the so-called perceived resolution and image fidelity.


Edited by Supmua

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no disresepect, but <groooooaaan> lol!

 

 

was gonna say "back OT" but theres literally no new news yet, on either headset.

 

 

 

whoa-this-vr-is-so-realistic-you-will-never-be-32019234.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

***EDIT***

 

 

Oh, Ive got a question - so I had a Vive pro. The Index has the same resolution, but increased FOV, which means larger viewable area.

 

What does that mean for perceived resolution on a pixels-per-degree basis? Will it essentially be lower? Or is it something like less "dead space" on the screen?

 

 

The index will have wma worse ppd as you say. But it has 30% more subpixels, and a totally different optical system. So in theory it will look as good or better even with increased fov.


Edited by Harlikwin

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I've been reading some pretty disturbing things about the Reverb's graphics in the last days - I highly doubt I will be having one. Still haven't discounted Index, though, but I will probably use the full 7 days to pay period to see what others report on it in DCSW - that's if anyone gets theirs in that time.

 

 

Otherwise I'll just have to cancel that order and wait for the next stock if I want one.

 

 

***actually, I think others will have theirs long before mine is available - my estimated availablitiy is 31st August


Edited by Brixmis

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Most actual reviews said nothing but good things about the Reverb from a graphical/visual acuity standpoint. Yes the Mura thing was brought up, but subsequent reviews said when you were actually playing a game it didn't matter.

 

No idea on availability "In your own little world" though, does it cost extra to get stuff shipped there?

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

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I've been reading some pretty disturbing things about the Reverb's graphics in the last days - I highly doubt I will be having one. Still haven't discounted Index, though, but I will probably use the full 7 days to pay period to see what others report on it in DCSW - that's if anyone gets theirs in that time.

 

 

Otherwise I'll just have to cancel that order and wait for the next stock if I want one.

 

 

***actually, I think others will have theirs long before mine is available - my estimated availablitiy is 31st August

 

 

Just wondering how you got an estimated availability date?

 

The page for the full kit says "shipped by" aug 31st but I presume thats a latest date (ignoring the inevitable further delays) and they will start going down the list of preorders before that.

 

What exactly did you read about the reverb graphics? Anything on top of the known mura and fixed IPD issues?

 

Im leaning towards the index, its a more complete package, and its displays, whilst not the highest res, seem to be pretty high specced.

 

 

 

Its too bloody subjective. One review says one thing, another says "thats not a thing, but this is". Its like trying to choose which spectacles to buy, but we all have different prescriptions...

 

Actually its exactly like that.

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Well it does require a brain cell or two

 

Yeah I can make an educated guess as to where you are based on your avatar. I even got to ride along on one of those long ago...


Edited by Harlikwin

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Well you were jumping to conclusions and doing that to try and belittle me, so I have pretty much zero interest in explaining or further involvement - have a nice day.

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Just wondering how you got an estimated availability date?

 

The page for the full kit says "shipped by" aug 31st but I presume thats a latest date (ignoring the inevitable further delays) and they will start going down the list of preorders before that.

 

Valve sent me an email - not a delivery date - telling me when the kit is expected to be avialable for me to buy and they will send an invoice, which must be paid within 7 days else the stuff goes back to stock.

 

I'd have to go back and read the article mentioning the visual issues on the Reverb (though mura wasn't mentioned at all) - it was by a journo who had actually tried it - for half an hour, I think it was. I cleared my browsing history a day or two ago, so would have to look again via Google - which is how I found it in the first place.

 

All in all, we can only act on currently available info (I tend to ignore speculation) from those who have had a go. In the case of the Index, that's no-one who can tell us anything, which is why I said I'd see what others think when they had theirs.

 

I was initially going for Rift S and Quest only. Apparently the initial expected availability date for Index was before the date that was shown when I reserved mine - so I am thinking I missed the first expected stock - deliberately. This is good for me, because it will mean others will have their headsets before mine is available, and I will have a better idea of whether to shell out or cancel.

 

At the end of the day, I have a Rift, and loads of software that I haven't even looked at yet, but am keen on trying, that should work well with the Rift S. Buying any other headset risks losing access to those and having wasted all that cash, if Oculus/FB decide at any time to pull the plug on available hacks to use Oculus Home (if they exist for the Reverb in the first place?), so I would need to keep the Rift as a minimum. Not to mention roomscale tracking, which I should keep with the S. I want to sell my Rift to soften the financial blow of getting a new headset.

 

Any further negatives (such as graphics issues, rubbish controllers like those the Reverb will have, questionable tracking) only increase doubt that buying that headset would be a shrewd move.

 

Based on these things, Reverb has looked less and less of an attractive proposition - to me. I'm not trying to tell anyone else what they should do - each person has their own expectations and priorities and decides based on their own agenda. I have a great dislike of people trying to tell other people what they should and shouldn't buy based on their own agenda, especially when "other people" is me!

 

It's amazing how short posts saying the way I personally am going, invokes responses like that of Harlikuin, but then it seems to be the norm these days. I'm sure he'll have some response which he thinks is clever and witty and trying to put me down - but I couldn't care less, I won't be reading it :)

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Valve sent me an email - not a delivery date - telling me when the kit is expected to be avialable for me to buy and they will send an invoice, which must be paid within 7 days else the stuff goes back to stock.

 

I'd have to go back and read the article mentioning the visual issues on the Reverb (though mura wasn't mentioned at all) - it was by a journo who had actually tried it - for half an hour, I think it was. I cleared my browsing history a day or two ago, so would have to look again via Google - which is how I found it in the first place.

 

 

Did that review also include a review of the Rift S? It sounds like you might have been reading the ARS Technica review that has had its link posted on this forum several times in the last week or so. If it was that one, the author gets a lot of his details mixed up between the two headsets (comments about physical features that don't even exist on the Reverb, but exist on the Rift, etc.), and he doesn't mention the Mura problem that a lot of other reviewers have mentioned as pretty much the only problem they saw with the Reverb. Its currently rumored that that one problem is the cause of the release delay of the Reverb, so even that is probably going to be fixed. Heh, don't really care for rumors and speculation though.

 

I've got a Reverb on pre-order with Amazon, and if I hate it when I finally get it, I'm planning on using Amazon's excellent return policy. Until then, I have my Rift like you do, so I'm in no rush. I want HP to get it right, rather than releasing an incomplete product to meet a deadline. I'm also planning on keeping my Rift, because like you, I have a lot of Oculus titles that I don't want to lose access to. Hoping that somebody much more clever than I am with computer hardware will maybe come up with a hack to get Oculus Touch controllers to work in the WMR environment. Might be impossible, but it would be an awesome thing.

 

I bought an HMD once based solely on the reviews it was getting, and I hated it. Won't mention the name of it because that tends to get people upset. LOL. What I learned from that though is that only the individual can determine if an HMD is right for them. Currently still loving my dinosaur CV1. :D

EVGA Z690 Classified, Intel i9 12900KS Alder Lake processor, MSI MAG Core Liquid 360R V2 AIO Liquid CPU Cooler, G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 64GB DDR5 6400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 980PRO 1TB M2.2280 SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 980PRO 2TB M2.2280 SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. :pilotfly:

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Did that review also include a review of the Rift S? It sounds like you might have been reading the ARS Technica review that has had its link posted on this forum several times in the last week or so. If it was that one, the author gets a lot of his details mixed up between the two headsets (comments about physical features that don't even exist on the Reverb, but exist on the Rift, etc.), and he doesn't mention the Mura problem that a lot of other reviewers have mentioned as pretty much the only problem they saw with the Reverb. Its currently rumored that that one problem is the cause of the release delay of the Reverb, so even that is probably going to be fixed. Heh, don't really care for rumors and speculation though.

 

I've got a Reverb on pre-order with Amazon, and if I hate it when I finally get it, I'm planning on using Amazon's excellent return policy. Until then, I have my Rift like you do, so I'm in no rush. I want HP to get it right, rather than releasing an incomplete product to meet a deadline. I'm also planning on keeping my Rift, because like you, I have a lot of Oculus titles that I don't want to lose access to. Hoping that somebody much more clever than I am with computer hardware will maybe come up with a hack to get Oculus Touch controllers to work in the WMR environment. Might be impossible, but it would be an awesome thing.

 

I bought an HMD once based solely on the reviews it was getting, and I hated it. Won't mention the name of it because that tends to get people upset. LOL. What I learned from that though is that only the individual can determine if an HMD is right for them. Currently still loving my dinosaur CV1. :D

 

Yeah I am still loving my Rift CV1. Been using it practically daily since Jan 2017. This thing is just rock solid and so totally reliable. No faffing about.

I just hope my incoming new Rift S is just as solid.

Don B

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Well you were jumping to conclusions and doing that to try and belittle me, so I have pretty much zero interest in explaining or further involvement - have a nice day.

 

Maybe you've confused me with someone else, given that I certainly wasn't jumping to any conclusions, that was you. In response to your post I merely pointed that most recent reviews didn't find any major graphical issues with the reverb. You then started the with the personal attacks, then a page long rant about people trying to sell you a headset which I certainly never did.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Then all you have to do is look at the thread cleverly disguised as the "HP Reverb Pro" thread. :music_whistling:

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Does anyone posting here actually have a Reverb? I'd value your comments over the general speculation.
I have had a Reverb for a couple of months and an Index on the way!

 

For reference my VR history is a DK2, CV1, Odyssey+ and Pimax 5K+

 

I primarily use VR for racing sims, most especially iRacing which has always worked well with all the headsets I have had.

 

I first tried DCS with the CV1 and I never really got into it. I also tried with the other headsets and much the same. For me the Reverb was a game changer thanks to the clarity I have yearned for from VR and especially with flight sims where the cockpit clarity and ability to see stuff far away is much more important than race sims where you are looking at the road ahead at the close to medium distance.

 

So I am finally getting into DCS after all this time!

 

I had already reserved an Index so decided to to accept the invite to buy. I am intrigued to see if the higher refresh rates will be a benefit for sim racing, though I doubt it will do a lot for flight sims where re-projection is the norm.

 

I have been lucky with my Reverb and not had the issues many have had with flickering and/or cable connection problems.

 

I think it is fabulous for flight sims and will report back how the Index compares.

 

Worth noting my IPD is 65 so well within the ideal range for the Reverb. Plus having owned a Pimax the clarity of screen outweighs the FOV in my case, others may not experience the same (some can't go back to a small FOV). It will be interesting to see if the Index is teh perfect compromise FOV/clarity wise.

 

I will let you know!

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Then all you have to do is look at the thread cleverly disguised as the "HP Reverb Pro" thread. :music_whistling:

 

+1, very easy to do.

The Reverb probably has more feedback from users on it here than any other current headset.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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I have both, got the Index first and found it great for DCS then got the Reverb and I boxed up the Index as there is no way I can ever go back to lower resolution and better clarity and almost zero SDE from the Reverb. I will aslo buy some Steam USB dongles to get the Knuckles working with the Reverb since I already have the basestations.


Edited by Naruto

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Does anyone posting here actually have a Reverb? I'd value your comments over the general speculation.

 

Congrats you have necrod a thread!

 

Yeah, multiple people here now have them including myself. A few guys have both and have done side by side comparisons.

 

The two cent version is the reverb has the best clarity by a good margin if you have the hardware to run it. But the index is probably the better headset if you use it for other non-sim games.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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The feedback is much appreciated and I'd be interested to hear how you think it compares with the Index. I was chatting to someone who has both and (surprisingly) found the clarity pretty similar - he put it down to superior lenses and better IPD adjustment on the Index.

 

 

I personally have an Odyssey+ at present and am holding out for the Reverb for a while so that HP can fix their quality issues. Plus the fact they are as rare as hen's teeth here in the UK at present.

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Some of the first guys to get their Reverb's were in the UK IIRC.

 

I have read that the few guys that have both of them rate the reverb's clarity significantly higher than the Index (the Index is comparable to the RiftS from what I read).

 

Just on the basis of pixel count and FOV I very much doubt the claims of equal clarity between the two.

 

The other thing to consider is that the WMR 1903 update caused blurring problems for the early Reverbs, which has since been fixed.

 

There is a whole thread about a guy that went from an O+ to the Reverb as well.

 

Also the Index has some wierd graphical problems as well (check the last page or two of hands on thread for that)


Edited by Harlikwin

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I have both. If you look at the stats, the Reverb is suppose to have twice as many pixels. But the clarity difference definitely isn't twice as good.

 

Maybe it's the better lenses in the Index, but I'd put the clarity of the Reverb "perception" wise about 30% greater than the Index. That is noticeable, but not Earth shattering.

 

I prefer the Index for a few reasons since I do general VR games:

 

1. 144 Hz is sweet.

2. Outside-in tracking is just superior.

3. Better/longer cable.

4. IPD adjustment.

5. Worlds better controllers.

6. Slightly larger FOV.

7. More comfortable.

8. No messing around with WMR BS.

 

If ALL I did was sim's, I maybe would stick with the Reverb. But for "overall" VR gaming the Index is an easy win.

 

But for some reason, even with 1903 update, the Reverb's clarity doesn't seem commensurate with the resolution specs.

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I tested both side by side for quite a bit in DCS. If you have the Reverb properly setup which was pretty difficult than the Reverb is much clearer hands down. You just can't beat the physics on the native pixels with filters. The difference in spotting distant targets is huge. Reverb is the hands down winner in clarity over the Index. They aren't even that close by the numbers or perception IMO. (if they seem close something is a afoot and we have seen that again and again)

 

Before the latest updates and 1903 fix I would agree that WMR/SteamVR were a lot more of a pain to get setup properly. It is still a pain but improving. The Reverb display smoothness (elimination of jutter/stutter) has improved tremendously in the last month as has the removal of shimmer from updates and not settings changes.

 

The head tracking on the Reverb is excellent in a lighted space. The WMR controllers leave a lot to be desired if you are using them which most are not for DCS. The controller tracking has it's well known limitations as well. As was said if you are using the Reverb for DCS only it rocks.

 

I could not tell any difference going above 90 Hz in DCS with the Index and other reviewers have said the same. Maybe it makes more of a difference in other games or to other individuals?

 

I will agree on these points:

- The Reverb cable has to be setup/positioned so it doesn't tug although I find it more than long enough for a sit down sim.

- My IPD is 64 mm so the adjustment is a non-issue but it may be for some. The Reverb isn't for everybody. IPD and uses other than a sit down sim may make the Index a better choice.

- HP has yet to release a reliable Reverb. Valve has had it's problems with the Index (display) and the controllers as well (more important for other games).

- If clarity is king (which it is for me in a military flight sim) the Index is a good notch down the ladder from the Reverb.


Edited by Secoda

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Great feedback Harlikwin, Vega and Seconda. Very useful. I've had plenty of feedback on the Reverb in the last couple of months and most of it from people who, upon closer quizzing, don't yet have one. The VR community seems to get very polarized into defending the headset they own. So your own opinions and hands-on observations are valuable.

 

 

I'm thinking that I'll hang on for a few months to see if HP can sort their quality issues and then plump for the Reverb along with a PC upgrade to handle it properly. But overall it does sound worth it for DCS.

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