SU25T is it ME??

OK this is an is it me question so be nice...

So i am free flying to a target maybe one I have created in a mission maybe a tutorial.

All trimmed lovely, speed good, I can even take my hand of the stick for a slurp of jacks finest.

Put a runway in-front of this plane and its like a bucking rhino, put a target in-front and try to aim, off it goes up down left right never the twain shall meet.

Ok ok flyover, now I need to turn back towards the targets, the plane knows this so starts to beep and pleep at me I turn away all is well try turning slower, ahh wheres the target gone im 20 miles past it.

So basically anytime, what I need to do is in-front of me or I need to turn to it the plane goes all bull in a china shop.

Set the trim for level flight, ok it starts to climb a little I push forward a little it wants to climb more forward stick, ok now its coming now from nearly straight up and im back on the stick and back and more and trim off and more back its still wants to go down and im on the stops of the joystick, maybe that's enough and it starts to climb up and up and up try to trim, stick forward up and up, ok I got it now its off back down again now up now down. Some times it is ok (usually when im just free flying) but soon as I set up for a bomb run or landing, the shenanigans start. Usually I hit esc and start over from take off or lesson, and others I just let it crash, thinking hmmm DCS aint for me.

So is it me.

I only have a hotas X but I think it is setup fine and works (tested and tested again) and often the plane flies ok, just as soon as I have to do something,,,,,,,,,,:helpsmilie:

Sounds like general inexperience to me. I used to fly the 25T a lot in my noob days. It's actually a very stable aircraft generally, except during landing and takeoff when the narrow wheelbase can easily result in you tipping over.

What you're describing sounds like PIO, pilot induced oscillation. If you're new to DCS, the aircraft here are not ''on rails'' like in many flight sims, and behave muuuuch more like real aircraft. You're probably over correcting. Think of ballet, carefully measured movements that are planned in advance.

All I can say is PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. With experience you can trim the 25 out so it'll pretty much land handsfree once you're in the glideslope. Also, you must stabilise your speed if you want to hold a course, even minor deviations up or down will require adjusting the trim. Also, some aircraft are more ''hands on'' than others. The Su-25s are simplistic aircraft that must be flown at all times.

That said, the 25T has a comprehensive autopilot for a variety of situations. It is designed for a certain cruise speed range though, so don't try to firewall it and expect the AP to control it, because it won't.

Also, I'd suggest some curves on your axis for pitch and roll using a short stick, can be adjusted in the options. I usually set like 20-30 on the 25 back in the day to give it a more ponderous, stable feel. In fact I believe the manual specifically provides a ''recommended setting''.

For DCS you must be prepared to have an open, learning mind and a willingness to study aircraft and flight in general. This is not ''War Thunder with jets'', and you're going to have to put some effort in. It is a rewarding experience, however. It's hard for EVERYONE at first. We all started where you are.

You should also check your controls. Add curves and dead zones as needed, that will help a lot. Just start with low curves and move up until it feels right

yeah thx guys - I have a few missions I made for the PRACTICE and im not expecting to grasp it overnight (im a week into it) - I have curves setup on the stick as per a few youtubers - the manual actually states stick inputs should be as linear as possible - I have gone from 35 down to zero and currently im at 15 which feels great - as I said when im not trying to do anything the plane flies like a patty (is there such a thing) - I can land but not well enough yet to go multiplayer campaign/mission - it was just like put a runway in front or a target and I get the yips - I will keep at it of course

I got rid of dead zones as these made things worse - I like the positive action feel with zero

Yes War Thunder and WOWP is not a great example to sim flight - hence I don't play them

Just thought id ask, see if there was a secret for eg they say stay tail heavy for your trim.

Its all fine until your climb rate exceeds the amount of forward stick you have, then its up up until it comes booming down and your off the trim back on the stick and momentarily you have control and then whoa off she goes again - I think it is a quite a sensitive plane for me right now and maybe my joystick is lacking finesse - but im a week in so investment in another stick is under consideration only at present.

Sticks help but a fancy stick doesn't magically provide experience or skill, you're not missing out on THAT much.

Also the ''nose becoming uncontrollable'', you should keep in mind the 25 is a subsonic aircraft and that a heavy load or certain weapon loadouts severely affect drag, handling, and top speed, when you approach the line for your current state, the aircraft will shake violently and become difficult to control. Clean, this happens between 1000 and 1100kmh IAS (transonic buffeting), loaded it will be slightly slower, and with Vikhrs it will be a LOT slower (I think around 700-800kmh depending on conditions). Vikhrs suck balls and have no business being on a fixed wing jet in those huge racks, they turn the aircraft into a complete pig. I recommend KH-25Ls if you need precision weaponry. Also, keep your loaded combat speed above 600kmh, for turns deploy flaps to half if your speed is near 400kmh. Loaded under 400 WILL STALL if you bank steeply.

For landings, I suggest just doing touch and goes for a bit, keep your speed down so you don't have to fight it too much. At 400kmh go to half flaps, at 350kmh go to full flaps. Final you should be around 300kmh as you approach the threshhold. Trim to reduce stick pressure required to maintain attitude. At this point, you have two options : You can come in slightly fast and do a flared landing, or you can trim the aircraft to maintain a 10 degree noseup attitude and set down more or less handsfree. Touchdown should be around 250-270kmh depending on load. Do not try to land with 30,000lbs of ordnance.

!Remember! USE THROTTLE NOT PITCH to control sink rate

!Remember! 5ms vertical speed is the MAXIMUM, it is not the IDEAL You should actually touch down as gently as possible

With practice and finesse, you can touch the mainwheels, hold the nose off the ground, apply power and immediately take off again.

Thx man that all helps - I have just now been running a bomb load straight out to sea using throttle/thrust to trim I see this really affects the rate of climb and when I trim I usually over trim and I'm as you said oscillating. Now I see that. Also I watched some Georgian oil vids (not tutorials just the guy at the wheel) I noticed straight away he runs out far then turns and reduces to 45% thrust on his run in - I've been at 80% trying to trim trying to slow trying to turn steer etc and the thrust is just yanking me all over - so done some of that too and now I have loads of time over the target - I do a trim run at my bombing speed 450-500 (will try 600) to get it all set then run around and it has much improved my runs - now I go back to work out how to fire weapons of each type - so the stick will be fine - problem is going to be buttons - reaching to KB for TSD zoom plus using mouse views is going to be my new problem.. (track ir next I guess)

TrackIR or a similar headtracking solution is a major game changer. I would prioritise that over a better stick even. I can confirm it does not introduce trigonometrical naivety, which is the most important thing, of course.