reported RWR not showing locked radars in Search mode

This is ALR69, but the audio logic is in the same ballpark.

This is ALR69, but the audio logic is in the same ballpark.

good find!

I would like to know at least the status of this "bug" from the devs. Are you working on it? Are you trying to find some relevant info? Will this stay as it is?

 

This is still one of this biggest problems with the F-5 module.

Well they have no choice but to get RWR audio made at some point because the F-4E RWR is completely analog with the primary means of identifying emitters being with their unique audio tones. (the azimuth indicator only shows direction, not radar type)

Honestly, the best way forward IMO is for all the dev teams (ED and 3rd parties) to use the same Radar audio (raw audio) since they should all sound the same, just like the radio station sounds exatly the same to multiple types of AM radios. (RWRs act like AM radios for radars, the Amplitude modulation comes from the Pulsing and the Scan)

The short term easy answer is to have the RWR work with the RAE mod, which plays specific audio files associated with specific RWR contacts.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=110840

If the Search mode button functionality is currently wrong it would be nice to have this fixed, as constantly switching it on and off is more workload.

A fix for the sounds would be nice too, but this can wait in my opinion.

wait for what? isn't the DCS: F-5E released (out of early access)?

Sorry, I am not trying to fight your opinion, I was only trying to separate the issues so the devs have the option to fix at least part of the problem without a community backlash of the kind of "...ok the button is fixed, but what about the tones!!!".

And I was also trying to get a vote in, so that the devs can see that people would like to have this fixed. I am on your side.

I am not a native english speaker, so please don't get the impression that I am trying to get into a fight or anything if something sounds that way.

My impression was that the RWR tones and the button behaviour are constantly mentioned together in these threads and I just wanted to clarify that it would be nice in my opinion if the devs could fix at least the button, and that the tones can be fixed later, also in my opinion.

What I meant was that it is 'not so important' for me at the moment. I believe implementing the audio cues could be a big undertaking (maybe even impossible due to existing agreements) and the devs might not have the time for that at the moment.

Fixing the button behaviour might be easier on the other hand and make at least some of us happy for a while :)

Still, having the tones aswell would be awesome of course!

I think it is far more likely that by "search" radars they mean dedicated search radars (early warning, AWACS, ATCR, etc) that would otherwise clutter up the indicator.

I believe so too, but I don't know if that is true. I hope the devs can figure it out with the resources they have and the additional information you all provided to them.

I've already made a mod for the search button.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=190090

But the functionality needs to be a standard for the module.

Thanks Beamscanner.

It definitely seems that BSK may have misunderstood their doc sources when coding the SEARCH button as initially simulated, as many posted before.

Regarding the PRF audio debate, things get a little bit more delicate, due to the simulated ALR-87 being such an unknown model. The fact of having a HANDOFF button on the panel could suggest that the system has that capability. On the other hand, the button could also have been carried on from the ALR-46 to save costs on certification, and the button could have no function on the ALR-87 as stated on the DCS F5E manual...

As long as the SEARCH button gets fixed I can live with the rest :)

Any news from the devs on this issue ?

And, it actually goes quite a bit further then that, as seen in the video that Beamscanner sent, the F-20 billboard's has the Act/Power and the Launch button flashing. Now what i found is very old, but i doubt the logic is that much different with newer versions, it surely has evolved thought,

This is a video about the AN/APR-25,26; and it shows how the RWR works and what all of the buttons do on the billboard, we can find the same Activity/Power button then on the F-5E's RWR, the same Launch button and slight twist, a AAA defeat switch, which hides AAA echos (kind of like the search mode hiding search radars).

I found the clip very intresting, and it explains alot of other stuff and how the equipement itself and what is linked to the AN/APR-25 and 26 works.

EDIT : Yeah someone had already posted this video on this thread.

The AN/ALR-46 was a digital replacement for the analogue AN/APR-36 and AN/APR-26.

 

There's an old training film for the APR-26

 

 

It demonstrates threat audio tones and the general features missing from the DCS F-5E AN/ALR-46 RWR but obviously the newer system differs in sensitivity, RWR symbology, etc.

 

Threat audio tones could modelled at a basic level, perhaps as in the Viggen (through game values) but I admit to preferring the Battlespace Sim Inc. approach of using public (wiki/google) sweep and PFR rates with side-lobe modelling to generate 'realistic' synthetic RWR audio tones (that don't run fowl of NDA's, etc.).

 

 

AFAIK the F-105G carried the AN/ALR-46 RWR, however I believe you are correct, not all F-105's carried the same RWR equipment and the tones heard in the flight recordings may be from a different system.

*

Still not fixed, I am losing hope, seems that Belsimtek joins the developers that just don't care..

I still believe they've misinterpreted the search function:

Display switchover of Azimuth Indicator for optional nondisplay/display of the

emitter symbols of defined radar systems (search and monitoring radars).

Emitter symbols of defined radar systems are not displayed, only fire control

radars.

Emitter symbols of defined radar systems are displayed exclusively

(no fire control radars!).

This basically toggles between two exclusive threat radar lists, not between detected radar states IMHO.

Easily documented and proven. Generate a track accordingly.

It does not make any sense that a pilot would have to press this button to see where and what is engaging him, you don't see the spike anymore in search mode off too, so if you don't have time to push this button, you have NO IDEA where to go, you might be turning into the ennemy.

Easily documented and proven. Generate a track accordingly.

The search button lights up a green "S" on it when selected. A reference for the pilots so that they know that if they want to see emitters identified as "S", to press that button.

SA-6 Target Acquisition emitter is not identified as "S" on the display.. Its identified as "6".

As per the ALR-87 lua file "S" radars are

Search radars should be displayed when the search button is selected. Not search modes.

Something the other side of this debate haven't considered is the fact that in order to verify if something is a search radar or not, the emitter must be identified in the first place. So you'd have to be saying that the RWR knows a threat emitter is locking/or firing at the aircraft but decidedly choosing not to display the information.

Then go through the motions.

And still waiting on the raw audio data related to the -87.

I think we had presented quite a strong case that Belsimtek's interpretation is wrong.

Still not fixed, first time reported 15.5.2017, let me remind you that this product is out of beta.

Would be great to have a realistic implementation of this RWR, seems that all the necessary information is here too. This module is simulated so nicely already this would really be the icing on the cake.

During my most recent mission me and my wingman had to toggle search on and off repeatedly to figure out the situation.

I wonder why seven 1000 khz beeps in 1.5 seconds.. my educated guess would be seven beeps for M I S S I L E.

I've flown the F-16CJ Block 52, F-16CG Block 40, Eurofighter FGR4 and F/A-18D (Swiss) with the RWR powered up. In none of those instances was there a constant flow of audio related to the priority threat. All I heard was 'new guy' and lock tones.

Not sure if that helps, but that's my first-hand experience.

Edit: I forgot, I got one ride in a Swiss F-5F and the RWR audio worked the same way.

I've flown the F-16CJ Block 52, F-16CG Block 40, Eurofighter FGR4 and F/A-18D (Swiss) with the RWR powered up. In none of those instances was there a constant flow of audio related to the priority threat. All I heard was 'new guy' and lock tones.

 

Not sure if that helps, but that's my first-hand experience.

 

Edit: I forgot, I got one ride in a Swiss F-5F and the RWR audio worked the same way.

Right now in DCS: F-5E AN/ALR-87 there is no "lock tone". You can get locked on by a SAM or AI radar, and you wont get any audio. The only audio you get is the initial "new guy" sound that could have been minutes ago, and a missile launch warning. That does not sound right.

I've listed documentation above that shows that the ALR-46 does provide constant audio. I believe in more modern RWRs you have to select "HANDOFF" and constant audio from the priority RWR indication (inside the diamond symbol) is provided. At the very least, the pilot should have constant audio feedback that he's being locked on to (lock tone).

Also, here is a video for you to look at. Perhaps you can explain the constant audio heard in these videos.

The other problem we've come across is how the developers implemented the "search" button. They made it so that when the search button is selected, only radars in a search or acquisition mode appear on the display. And when its not selected only radars in a lock on mode are displayed. Meaning if an F-18 is in RWS mode looking at my aircraft, I'll only see "18" indication when "search" button is depressed. If that same F-18 switches to STT on me, he will disappear from my display and I wont see him (and as before, i also wont hear him). I'd have to manually de-select the search button to see that an F-18 is locking me. This is not correct.

From what I understand, the "search" button is used to show Early Warning radars and other dedicated search radars (not search modes) if the pilot wishes to see them. With the search button deselected all threat radars (including SAMs and fighter radars) should be visible regardless if they are in a search mode (RWS, TWS) or a targeting mode (STT)

BTW: input from professionals like yourself is greatly appreciated. thank you!

Anxiously awaiting a proper RWR. Great research Beamscanner, thanks for putting all this together.

Steve Davies and Beamscanner,

Thank you very much for your contributions! I hope Belsimtek is able to take this and improve RWR simulation.

BUMB!

Maybe fix before new year.

Just bought F5, and I noticed this was broken on my second sortie.

The "other" nameless sim works correctly.

1.5.8.12823.414

Still not fixed :-(

(Tested with enemy SA-10 and Su-27, single player.)

Developers, please improve the survivalability of the F5!

Missile launch warning is easily missable, and too late notification.