Which Joystick settings are the best for Mi-8

Hi, :)

 

My intention is to know which аre the best joystick settings for JOY_Y, JOY_ X, JOY_Z and JOY_Slider1 (pedals) axis.

 

I mean, which can best approach or simulate the real Mi-8's controllers for piloting the Mi-8MTV2 module. Or, which joystick settings can be the best to simulate the sensibility of a real Mi-8 collective, cyclic and pedals.

 

In my case, I am using these following ones, eventhough I am not sure if these are the best for piloting the Mi-8.

 

My Joystick input values for Y and X axis are the same as follows:

 

For JOY_Y and JOY_X I use the same input values:

 

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 80

Curvature = 20

 

For JOY_Z axis:

 

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 100

Curvature = 20

 

And For JOY_SLIDER1 ( Pedals ) I use the following input values:

 

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 100

Curvature = 20

 

Maybe one of the DCS developers of Mi-8MTV2 module, or even a Mi-8 pilot could share his settings! :joystick:

A "realistic" feel depends 100% on your own hardware.

 

In general:

 

Reducing Y saturation on the X and Y axes is used if your joystick has a shorter throw than the real controls.

 

Curves are used to decrease sensitivity around the center (or increase it) but I never use them, because I find the non-linearity very annoying.

Hi, thanks for your reply!

 

I've been trying out many combinations of settings for my Thustmaster Hotas Joystick, and also I have already used linear settings for X and Y Axis, including the pedals. But, I observed that these settings were good some quick maneuverings, but for others as hovering, or landing on a specific area as an oil platform or a ship deck, it becomes almost an impossible task to control the Mi-8, due its high sensibility to these joystick input settings.

 

Then, I decided to change these settings, by using deadzones and until the use of curves, but this gave me the impression I was trying to make things to become easier to me, instead of having a simulation of a real Mi-8's collective, cyclic and pedals.

 

Well, I disabled the following options "Control Helper" and "Autopilot Adjustment", which are found under the tab "SPECIAL" for Mi-8 module. I also changed the option "Trimmer Mode" to "Central Position Trimmer Mode" instead of "Default".

 

And in my opinion, these last three settings I made, seem to be more realistic to fly the Mi-8, eventhough they require a more precise control and also more attention of the player, otherwise the player can easily crash the Mi-8. :joystick:

 

Because of these changes, the Mi-8 became more sensible and the Mi-8 engines seem to have gained more power and velocity, what contributes to make things difficult to quick reduce the velocity to proceed a Hover, a landing on a desired placed, or even just for taxing with the helicopter.

 

That's why DCS Developers team created the "Control Helper" option, that makes things easier.

 

Of course, I am not trying to make things easier and neither more difficult to fly the Mi-8, but, only trying to reach the most possible similarity of behavoir between a player's joystick and the real Mi-8 controls. But, naturally if this is possible! And with this purpose, I think that any good suggestion is always welcome! :thumbup:

...

I've been trying out many combinations of settings for my Thustmaster Hotas Joystick, and also I have already used linear settings for X and Y Axis, including the pedals. But, I observed that these settings were good some quick maneuverings, but for others as hovering, or landing on a specific area as an oil platform or a ship deck, it becomes almost an impossible task to control the Mi-8, due its high sensibility to these joystick input settings.

Setting up controls is really something subjective but personally I always suggest to get used to 1-1 inputs (no curves). Maybe except of rudder with max 15% curvature setting. Controls in helicopter may seem too sensitive at the beggining but just practice and trim a lot.

The reason why I'm not a biggest fan of curves is that they dynamically change the resolution. At the beginning they create a feeling of operating a longer stick while in further deflections a shorter one. Something that could be illustrated as like the stick would be designed to get shorter, hide into the floor depending on how much it is deflected. Sounds really stupid but this is how the curves are working. Just as an example, the physical stick is 10 cm, set the curves, now in neutral position the stick feals like it would be 20 cm long - great, but as soon as it starts to be deflected it hides under the floor and end up to be only 2 cm long at the full deflection.

As for the decreased saturation - quite obvious, they cut a part of movement - with stick its like having something blocking it from achieving a full deflection.

The best solution would be probably the stick extension - but that's hardware, not software.

 

On the other hand, the helicopter collective is quite special as the trimmer if used often allows to mitigate to some extend the negative effects of curves and saturation. So, for instance with 50% of saturation, thanks to triming it's still possible to achieve 100% of virtual cyclic deflection.

Same applies to curves, when trimming a lot most of the time the stick will work in the increased resolution zone.

 

...

Then, I decided to change these settings, by using deadzones and until the use of curves, but this gave me the impression I was trying to make things to become easier to me, instead of having a simulation of a real Mi-8's collective, cyclic and pedals.

Just a suggestion but don't set the deadzones as long as are no problems with hardware. Deadzones should be used to eliminate false inputs when the device (stick, pedals, throttle) is in neutral position.

 

...

Well, I disabled the following options "Control Helper" and "Autopilot Adjustment", which are found under the tab "SPECIAL" for Mi-8 module. I also changed the option "Trimmer Mode" to "Central Position Trimmer Mode" instead of "Default".

 

And in my opinion, these last three settings I made, seem to be more realistic to fly the Mi-8, eventhough they require a more precise control and also more attention of the player, otherwise the player can easily crash the Mi-8. :joystick:

There is a problem with the computer pedals. As far as I understand the real pedals in Mi-8 stay where they are trimmed while the computer ones have the centering spring making them come back to the center. Another thing is that the real pedals have the microswitch that would disengage heading AP channel when pilot is placing his foots on the pedals.

In other words, it's a hardware issue. The computer pedals would have to be constructed in a different way to work like the real ones. The closest that you could get is probably by removing the centering spring.

Unfortunatelly, due to this issue I'm not using the heading AP at all.

 

...

That's why DCS Developers team created the "Control Helper" option, that makes things easier.

 

Of course, I am not trying to make things easier and neither more difficult to fly the Mi-8, but, only trying to reach the most possible similarity of behavoir between a player's joystick and the real Mi-8 controls. But, naturally if this is possible! And with this purpose, I think that any good suggestion is always welcome! :thumbup:

Control helper are there to make things easier but also to address the fact that some devices work in a different way. Easier also doesn't always have to be considered as cheating. Seating in front of the screen we don't get any force feedback from the as.. - chair.

Edited February 15, 2017 by firmek

Best thing to improve your flying of the Mi-8 is an extension. Obviously that is only my opinion and some people may disagree:) That was the thing that gave me so much more control over all the choppers. Before I got the extension using my warthog hotas I used the trim mode where you don't need to centre it. I was pretty good at it too;) There are some video's linked in my sig that covers hovering with the AP that may be of interest to you. All of the video's where made before the extension was bought

Just for the record:

a) for non-FFB, sprung sticks, "default" and "centr. pos. trimmer mode" are the same thing;

b) "autopilot adjustment" turns on Your virtual flight engineer, who adjusts A/P channels all the time, just like the real one would do. So it's actually more realistic to keep this option on, unless You want to do both piloting and the adjustments yourself (not recommended, the Hip has a crew of three for a reason!), or You want the engineer to do his adjustment only for a given flight attitude when You hit relevant key combo (see A/P section of Hip's controls).

 

As for the curves, before extending my Warthog, I was using 25-30% curves + lots of trimming for any kind of precise hovering control. Now, with 30cm extension, I switched to full linear, but boy, this flying bus is still damn twitchy! Getting used to it, though.

 

For full realism, one should activate "rudder trimmer" option as well, as the pedals on the real thing are trimmable. The problem is, ours are not, as mentioned above. So I turned it off, with cruising speeds You can fly with pedals centered anyway.

I fly 80% Y saturation, 0% curves, and don't use an extension. (Mostly because helos aren't the only thing I fly)

 

I do use center position trimmer mode, since I use a warthog. Stiction on mine isn't bad.

 

If I only flew helos, I would simply remove the centering spring from my pedals. (I have Crosswinds)

Hi firmek,

 

"As for the decreased saturation - quite obvious, they cut a part of movement - with stick its like having something blocking it from achieving a full deflection."

I also I agree with you, really, a reduced saturation makes loose a lot of movement. I think to use it, you must adjust a minimum as possible. At least, a saturation setting that allows you to reach the maximum permissible angles degrees for Mi-8 pitch, bank and turns.

 

And as I wrote, a very reduced saturation setting for a joystick could affect all the Mi-8 control performance. That´s why, I am using just 80% of Y saturation for X and Y axis. Maybe, no more than 80% be necessary in my opinion.

 

By the way, I added a pdf file link of the Mi-8 Flight Operation Manual of the US Air Force, that was translated from the original russian Mi-8 Manual, that describes very well on its 7°th and 8°th pages what I mean about permissible angles for Mi-8 turns, hover, pitch and bank degrees.

 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a143860.pdf

"Just a suggestion but don't set the deadzones as long as are no problems with hardware. Deadzones should be used to eliminate false inputs when the device (stick, pedals, throttle) is in neutral position."

At the moment, I am not using deadzones anymore. I decided to remove them.

 

"There is a problem with the computer pedals. As far as I understand the real pedals in Mi-8 stay where they are trimmed while the computer ones have the centering spring making them come back to the center. Another thing is that the real pedals have the microswitch that would disengage heading AP channel when pilot is placing his foots on the pedals.

 

In other words, it's a hardware issue. The computer pedals would have to be constructed in a different way to work like the real ones. The closest that you could get is probably by removing the centering spring."

 

Really, this seems to be a very good solution. I until found also a thread that explains it.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144036&highlight=pedal+mi-8

 

Thank you! :)

Hi Cibit, thanks for your reply,

"Best thing to improve your flying of the Mi-8 is an extension. Obviously that is only my opinion and some people may disagree That was the thing that gave me so much more control over all the choppers. "

Your suggestion about using extension seems to be a good idea. There are some video's linked in my sig that covers hovering with the AP that may be of interest to you. All of the video's where made before the extension was bought

 

By the way, I have already watched your videos about hovering and landing on the ship deck. Really a very good flight control! :thumbup:

Hi Art-J

 

b)"autopilot adjustment" turns on Your virtual flight engineer, who adjusts A/P channels all the time, just like the real one would do. So it's actually more realistic to keep this option on, unless You want to do both piloting and the adjustments yourself (not recommended, the Hip has a crew of three for a reason!), or You want the engineer to do his adjustment only for a given flight attitude when You hit relevant key combo (see A/P section of Hip's controls)."

I generally use the autopilot adjustment option. But at the moment, I am not using it. I observed that some players don´t like to use autopilot channels to fly the Mi-8. In my case, I stopped using autopilot channels, because in the last releases of DCS for Mi-8 module, had a kind of bug on it. But, in this actual release, this bug seems to be solved.

 

Thanks for your suggestions! :)

Edited February 16, 2017 by chbn

Hi gospadin

 

"I fly 80% Y saturation, 0% curves, and don't use an extension. (Mostly because helos aren't the only thing I fly)"

I also use 80% Y saturation just as you do, and 20% of curvature for all the axis. I like to fly my other helicopter modules Ka-50 and Huey UH-1H with almost all the same joystick settings I use for Mi-8, eventhough I think these settings for Ka-50 and Huey are easier for controlling in a quick hovering and in a precise landing.

 

I like to fly also planes like SU-25 , SU-27, MiG-21Bis and P-51D. But for planes, the only ones I use a reduced saturation are MiG-21 and P-51D, seen that any soft movements affect them greatly. :)