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How to evade missiles without countermeasures pod?


WelshZeCorgi

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I'm just curious how you would evade missiles on missions where you are not given the countermeasures pod. Notching I get with Radar guided but not sure how you would fool a manpad heat seeker or one launched from a mig 21.

 

And another thing, why do AI viggen seem to deploy flares when they don't have the countermeasure pod? That confused the hell out of me and made me thing that those triangle things beside the nozzle were flare dispensers.


Edited by WelshZeCorgi
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Fly low and if you get launched on try and drive it into the ground.

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180, afterburner stage 3 while following a walley and pray.

 

Viggen was designed as phase 1 strike fighter where there was always another Viggen to do ECM for the flight.

Phase 2 (later in the war) was to hide in a road base and do one way runs.

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it increases the signature significantly.

the heater already sees you so your point is moot.

you can either outpull it if its an old enough missile or you can outrange it if it was fired from far enough away.

 

real answer is just dont be there in the first place. op's question is like "how do i not get wet if i jump into a pool naked".

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real answer is just dont be there in the first place. op's question is like "how do i not get wet if i jump into a pool naked".

 

Well, if only the enemy was so cooperative. You can't easily see manpads or even spaa's when you're so close to the ground and the Mig 21 is fast enough to chase you down.

 

I'd think it would be more like "how do you not die when youre ordered to destroy a target that has a lot of angry people around armed with guided sticks of dynamite and no real way to decoy them."

 

I'm asking because of that instant mission for the Viggen where you bomb an airbase. You got plenty of bombs and 2 aims but, first time i played it, i didn't see the migs taking off and they just about shot all of us down cause no one had the pods apparently... or the wherewithall to fight back. Or communicate that there were migs shooting us down cause viggen AI just be like that.

 

 

so when, not if, you get fired upon on the day you forgot to put on your big boy countermeasure pants, is there really nothing you can do to avoid getting blown up at the relatively safe altitude of 100 feet?


Edited by WelshZeCorgi
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I'd like to say something useless: build good SA. Because from my experience the cm pod itself is pretty useless:

 

when you want to evade ir missile, the pod can only release one flare one second---which is not fast enough at all. mig21 or a10c can release a flare cluster in several second and cheat the ir missile for sure. however for ajs37 you can only release the flare in a really slow rate and pray.

 

when you want to evade radar missile, the pod can actually do something---cheat some early sam. late tech sam like sa10 is not likely to be cheated by chaff at all?(I didnt see that happen) however the early sam is supposed to be dealed with the extreme low flight altitude and fast speed.

So I think for a typical viggen mission: I would choose to plan my flight well and fly as slow and fast as I can, and make sure I know what im doing while in hostile territory. If you dont do this well, no matter how many cm pod you have on a viggen, you will fall down.

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Also the cm machanics in dcs world kind of affects the cm ability on viggen. In the real world, a 4 ship squadron includes one or 2 viggens carry the cm pod, the flares and chaff dispensed by these 2 viggens can actually cover the whole team. So the pylons in the real world are used in a more efficient way. However in the game, your wingman cannot use his cm pod to cover you, you need to have one pod on one of your main pylon---sometimes means the lost of 50% percent of antiship capability.

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I'd like to say something useless: build good SA. Because from my experience the cm pod itself is pretty useless:

 

when you want to evade ir missile, the pod can only release one flare one second---which is not fast enough at all. mig21 or a10c can release a flare cluster in several second and cheat the ir missile for sure. however for ajs37 you can only release the flare in a really slow rate and pray.

 

when you want to evade radar missile, the pod can actually do something---cheat some early sam. late tech sam like sa10 is not likely to be cheated by chaff at all?(I didnt see that happen) however the early sam is supposed to be dealed with the extreme low flight altitude and fast speed.

 

Chaff works for me if you use program 1 (fast). I do think I have tried that against sa10, atleast against sa11 and sa15.

 

Concerning the flares, does it help to press the fast dispense button as fast as you can?

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If you're getting launched at, you haven't been low and fast enough dealwithit.png

 

This.

 

The Viggen is a plan, plan, and then plan some more and execute bird. I spend probably as much time in mission planner setting a route, looking at terrain and figuring out exactly how I will approach, attack and get back - as I do flying the mission (It's what I like about the Viggen).

 

Coming in you need to be as low as possible - so much so that after exclusively flying a Viggen for a week anytime you're above 100m AGL you start feeling like you're at cruising altitude in a 747, freak out and get back to brushing treetops with your eternal tank.

 

Additionally you need to be fast. Stage 2 on the attack run, Stage 3 is the GTFO gear. Ideally terrain hides you from the radars so once you're exposed you are so fast and sudden that the enemy can't react fast enough.

 

The final element is your weapons - the Viggen had some of the best standoff munitions of it's time - you should be able to release guided weapons at the edge of the SAM bubble - which in turn means at M0.9 that once you 180 by the time the SAM could reach you its too late and you're out of range. Equally terrain utilization to break contact is key.

 

If all else fails, since most missiles will be coming down on you, hard late evasive turns can usually get the missile to miss and slam into the ground (normally they just detonate above it in my experience thus far).

 

The final part though - "if he dies, he dies," - will you be chased down by that MIG? Probably. Can you break everything … nope. That's why its fun and not terrifying, you live to fly another day. (Hope this wasn't preachy... not meant to be)

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To be fair, the question was how to evade a missile. Of course, preventing a launch is better ;).

 

Yea but this is some Mr. Miyagi stuff - the original question is how to fight, and we're in here telling you how to wax a car - because every missile never fired never hits you :D

 

Dodging missiles is a simple theory in all craft: change angles, change distances, pucker, and hope that works long enough for the missile to miss.

---

AJS37 Viggen, F-16C Viper, Adobe Premier.

X56 HOTAS, Ryzen 7, GTX 2070S

youtube.com/leadnapgaming

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  • 4 years later...

Just to add to the already discussed above...

I found that speed plays a large part in not getting fired at in the first place, going mach 1.2 at treetop is usually too much for say an SA-9 to handle.  not quick enough to see you, by the time its turned its missiles on you your too far away.

However, attacking a ship at sea with no terrain to mask you from radar guided missiles is another thing altogether...

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