Radar: TWS drops lock

TWS Drops lock, Radar is not Tracking & Refreshing Contacts correctly, Contacts stay on the screen due to memory mode and disappear after 7 seconds not being refreshed by the radar

Video (+thorough description)

one more thing about TWS dropping lock, not described in the video:

same thing happens to RDO locks (no A-G weapons onboard)

if you TWS lock a contact using RDO function, the radar will stop updating contact's position and the lock would drop in 7 seconds

works fine if you TWS lock it 'manually'

this explains exactly what a lot of Mirage drivers tried to express for months: radar loosing locks "randomly" (before being told it was normal, just because of the way doppler effect works !) , this is not a new bug.

Another clarification needed is if it is normal that the radar automatically switches to PSIC upon matra 530's usage. it currently goes from PSID to PSIC on its own when you fire, yet the manual states that it's not supposed to be able to track a weapon in PSID mode. (it hints that a 530 can be fired in PSID, which is not possible currently since it switches automatically)

Yea, I seem to get the TWS lock drops often as well. Sometimes its due to good notching, and CM but sometimes its a hot target that I can even visually spot, and it just... drops...

The loosing lock doesn't seem to be random: it's exactly 7 seconds after the radar bar (narrow azimuth) moves to the left or right of the locked contact.

Only for RDO locks

I'm right on top of contacts now , I can not get a stable lock at distance . Contacts flying in straight line .

this explains exactly what a lot of Mirage drivers tried to express for months: radar loosing locks "randomly" (before being told it was normal, just because of the way doppler effect works !) , this is not a new bug.

 

Another clarification needed is if it is normal that the radar automatically switches to PSIC upon matra 530's usage. it currently goes from PSID to PSIC on its own when you fire, yet the manual states that it's not supposed to be able to track a weapon in PSID mode. (it hints that a 530 can be fired in PSID, which is not possible currently since it switches automatically)

The Super 530D is LOBL (Lock On Before Launch).

No, you can’t shoot in PSID.

Yes, it’s normal the radar automatically switch to PSIC when you shoot Super 530D. (I almost always shoot this way).

Yet the missile can relocate a target if lock is lost (I already did it Vs AI), but it’s difficult to achieve.

So you can imagine to shoot, break lock and re-lock, but this is very hazardous and unlikely to succeed.

there was a time you needed to specificaly go PSIC before launching, now you don't need to since the radar automatically switches from PSID to PSIC.

thanks for the clarification, glad the correct behaviour is the one currently being used by the module.

... , now you don't need to since the radar automatically switches from PSID to PSIC.

Afaik there still is the bug where when you're launching from TWS it still can occur that the "PSIC" warning flashes/radar unable to go into STT mode.

There is one tricky case when you shoot from PSID Vs jammer equiped target.

If you are fighting high and fast, you may shoot farther than “burn through range”.

What can happen is:

- lock in PSID

- press the trigger

- radar switch to PSIC

- Super 530D leaves the rail

- target’s jammer is activated

- lock is broken.

This isn’t a bug. But I don’t think in MP many people will shoot that far (>20Nm).

the 'NO PSIC' warning on the hud comes much more often actually... in MP as well

it's not only about burnthrough range... sometimes this warning comes up even on not jamming targets (usually for bad aspect+ground clutter)

Exactly, Zhen! And from what I'd guess how Dassault maybe developed the weapon-system, in that scenario, the 530D would fly straight until the M2000 radar gets an STT and then maybe, if within seeker angle, the 530 would go on intercept course again? (A guess)

Exactly, Zhen! And from what I'd guess how Dassault maybe developed the weapon-system, in that scenario, the 530D would fly straight until the M2000 radar gets an STT and then maybe, if within seeker angle, the 530 would go on intercept course again? (A guess)

This is painful, I already said above: Super 530D = LOBL

For cultural reference:

- Dassault designed the plane

- Snecma designed the M53-P2 engine

- Thomson CSF (now Thales) designed RDI radar

- Matra (now MBDA) designed the Super 530D and Magic 2 missile.

We can get into details of the proper launch procedure as much as everybody likes, but it's missing the point. it has nothing to do with the missile or how you engage the target.

There is a bug regarding the radar losing lock on a non-maneuvering target at high altitude away from any clutter.

For me, it usually manifested by the locking the target, after few seconds the radar antenna abruptly jumps to one side and the lock is broken, if I move the TDC the antenna will jump back to the previous position and I am able to reacquire the target.

Also, the angle radar sweeps and the indicator of current position fall apart which is a clear bug and can not be explained by "that's how radars work".

So can we please get a clear ticket in the bug tracker to make sure its being looked at since it is a major bug not being able to use the radar in an interceptor airplane.

- Thomson CSF (now Thales) designed RDI radar

- Matra (now MBDA) designed the Super 530D and Magic 2 missile.

Sure but don't tell me those two companies didn't cooperate AT ALL... So do you say that in that scenario, A. the DCS 530 should only leave the rail if the radar gets an STT lock, or B. that the 530 would fire but be a totally wasted shot (if PSIC warning appears because of radar not being able to auto-STT from TWS) ?

A- the missile only leaves the rail with a PSIC/ STT lock. = Lock On Before Launch (LOBL).

Ah interesting, so then the DCS M2000 bug (Razbam bug?) is that the missile leaves the rail even if radar isn't able to auto-PSIC (from TWS)?

Ah interesting, so then the DCS M2000 bug (Razbam bug?) is that the missile leaves the rail even if radar isn't able to auto-PSIC (from TWS)?

I didn't experienced that.

Sometimes PSIC can flash on the HUD, but things are going fast during launch sequence (1/10th of seconds).

I still think that in game, the missile launch with the proper sequence.

Yes launch sequence is fast, but I'd guess the M2000C has a sophisticated processor to first check for PSIC and only then give launch permission to the 530D rocket engine.

jojo it seems you don't fly Razbam's Mirage too much, do you ?

the no-STTlock launch should've happened to any frequent mirage pilot in DCS

this happens when 'NO PSIC' warning comes on the hud, but the missile still goes off the rail.

jojo it seems you don't fly Razbam's Mirage too much, do you ?

 

the no-STTlock launch should've happened to any frequent mirage pilot in DCS

this happens when 'NO PSIC' warning comes on the hud, but the missile still goes off the rail.

I don't recall it happening to me too. But it would need a separate bug report.

jojo it seems you don't fly Razbam's Mirage too much, do you ?

 

the no-STTlock launch should've happened to any frequent mirage pilot in DCS

this happens when 'NO PSIC' warning comes on the hud, but the missile still goes off the rail.

The no PSIC message has nothing to do with missile going off the rail.

It appears when the radar can't go in PSIC, like trying to lock at too far range. I also got it when facing ECM and trying to lock before burn through range.

But I didn't perform specific test to isolate all the conditions.

Usually closing a few nautical miles solves the issue.

But you may not be as good as you think at analyzing what happens.

What happens when pressing the fire trigger with PSID? Radar attempts to change PSIC and fire missile.

What happens if PSIC fails? Does missile fire anyway or is missile inhibited from firing? What should happen?

IRL my guess is that the missile does not launch. the radar cannot guide a weapon in PSID.