Case1 - holding stack radio call

Hi everyone,

I miss one thing from SC manual.

After the inbound call, does the sc gives me an holding altitude?

I don't see any radio call for 2000', 3000' etc

Do I have to understand somehow the other flights stack altitude and then choose the right one for me?

At "see me at 10" seems that you have to know your stack alt.

Thanks

Lonewolf

IIRC each squadron in the air wing gets assigned a stack number and this is determined by the CAG and his staff. Thus it's one of those things you just know because every single time you come back to the boat you'll be holding at that altitude until signal charlie. And if things change, you'd be briefed beforehand.

Lowest altitude is 2000'. So the squadron that gets assigned 2000 has to be at that altitude inside 10 DME from the boat and they will break the deck.

So your assumption is correct: When you make the "see me" call it's assumed that you're already at the right altitude for your squadron. I'm assuming this is one of those things a naval aviator simply doesn't forget and would probably prefer to eject or hold at the wrong altitude and maybe get disciplined before asking twr to remind them at what altitude they should be.

I think GB once said it's better to eject than to look bad/stupid :lol:

Edit: also I'm sure if lead screws up and is at the wrong altitude one of the wingmen would say as much (or if that's the case, the NFO riding in the back). Nuggets who'd be more prone to making these silly mistakes wouldn't be leading a section or a 2-ship anyway...

Hi everyone,

I miss one thing from SC manual.

After the inbound call, does the sc gives me an holding altitude?

I don't see any radio call for 2000', 3000' etc

Do I have to understand somehow the other flights stack altitude and then choose the right one for me?

At "see me at 10" seems that you have to know your stack alt.

Thanks

 

Lonewolf

During CQ, either Marshal or the Boss will tell you which altitude to take (usually the boss).

During cyclic ops, you will go to your squadron’s altitude (it is permanent while you’re underway).

That’s all IRL and not DCS of course.

Thanks I understand but in DCS??

What about AI?

Public Server?

We use a lot the Airboss Moose script and it will generate a queque (when you check in) , where the rule is "first in first out" and you can check your status and your assigned altitude and when to lower down in the stack...

Will be useful if when I check in the boss tell me where to go (altitude)...

Thanks I understand but in DCS??

What about AI?

Public Server?

 

We use a lot the Airboss Moose script and it will generate a queque (when you check in) , where the rule is "first in first out" and you can check your status and your assigned altitude and when to lower down in the stack...

 

Will be useful if when I check in the boss tell me where to go (altitude)...

I believe in dcs implementation, it would kind of make huge sense for mother to pass the altitude you are to begin your holding with AI in the stack.

Some sort of algorithm to arrange both human and AI in the stack/pattern.

Traditionally I thought the stack was associated with modex number (and by extension squadron). In other words, 1xx at 2,000ft, 2xx at 3,000ft, 3xx at 4,000ft, etc. Back then fighters took the 1xx/2xx numbers and typically burned more fuel and thus had priority.

Is it still done that way or by squadron, regardless of modex, since nearly everyone flies the same airframe these days?

Traditionally I thought the stack was associated with modex number (and by extension squadron). In other words, 1xx at 2,000ft, 2xx at 3,000ft, 3xx at 4,000ft, etc. Back then fighters took the 1xx/2xx numbers and typically burned more fuel and thus had priority.

 

Is it still done that way or by squadron, regardless of modex, since nearly everyone flies the same airframe these days?

It is done by squadron, but as you mentioned, each squadron has its own modex “series”. However, it is not just one squadron per altitude, but two. They will circle 180 degrees out from each other across the circle.

During CQ, either Marshal or the Boss will tell you which altitude to take (usually the boss).

 

During cyclic ops, you will go to your squadron’s altitude (it is permanent while you’re underway).

 

That’s all IRL and not DCS of course.

Can you tell me, does this work differently when in an operational theatre?

I'm just thinking where sorties may last for many hours with lots of AA refuelling going on, ordinance being expended etc, surely you won't know to the minute when you're actually getting back? Collapsing the stack makes sense when those at the bottom arrive and leave the stack first, but if they were delayed by combat, I can see that potentially causing an issue?

Thanks.

I just read a book - "Black Aces High" - where it was implied that cyclic ops are maintained during combat sorties (at least during the Kosovo Conflict explored by the book), and jets had to make it back from their missions in time to catch that recovery window. As a matter of fact the author describes an event where a 2-ship cap couldn't make it back in time for their assigned recovery cycle because CAOC demanded they prosecute an unrelated target and since they still had fuel they went for it. But since they arrived late and had to wait for the next cycle the jets couldn't be refueled/serviced/rearmed in time to go back up for the next scheduled squadron sortie. The skipper got extremely irritated...

I just read a book - "Black Aces High" - where it was implied that cyclic ops are maintained during combat sorties (at least during the Kosovo Conflict explored by the book), and jets had to make it back from their missions in time to catch that recovery window. As a matter of fact the author describes an event where a 2-ship cap couldn't make it back in time for their assigned recovery cycle because CAOC demanded they prosecute an unrelated target and since they still had fuel they went for it. But since they arrived late and had to wait for the next cycle the jets couldn't be refueled/serviced/rearmed in time to go back up for the next scheduled squadron sortie. The skipper got extremely irritated...

Many thanks for the info. I was thinking in terms of having to make it back for the next recovery cycle, which clearly isn't practical for a long mission. What you're saying makes sense: although you may have a planned cycle to return for, you can recover at the recovery point of a different cycle.

Can you tell me, does this work differently when in an operational theatre?

 

I'm just thinking where sorties may last for many hours with lots of AA refuelling going on, ordinance being expended etc, surely you won't know to the minute when you're actually getting back? Collapsing the stack makes sense when those at the bottom arrive and leave the stack first, but if they were delayed by combat, I can see that potentially causing an issue?

 

Thanks.

Your schedule on the airplan could have you go “double cycle”. So you know which event you are supposed to tecover in. It is not necessarily the next event, but that will require getting gas airborne. You don’t have to make it back to the recovery at a certain minute. You should be established in holding overhead about ten minutes prior to the event time, but you can still be late and join the recovery at the top of the stack if need be.

It’s even possible that the airplan will support an “open deck.” While less common, the deck will behave more like CQ in that is open for recovery whenever you get there, for a long window.

Thanks!

Question regarding marchal altitudes

Assume the F-14 marchal (squadron altitude) is at 2000 feet, the F-18 at 3000, and A-6 at 4000. At Charlie time the F-14 breake the deck and the F18 descend to 2000, and the A-6 descend to 3000 (this is my understand of how things should happen). Anyway imagine that an F-14 just arrived at marchal. Should he go to 2000 together with the F18? Should he go to next available empty altitude at 4000? Would atc give them a holding altitude different than the squadron altitude?

If you haven't spotted it already, you might want to check out https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=268812, as that discussion appears to cover similar, albeit not totally the same, ground.

I asked becouse here in DCS the things are not written in the stone like for real operations.

We are not a squadron ( not like real one) and we arrive, after the mission, at the Stennis in pairs or in a 4 ships formation and go for landing on random way...

With Airboss script the Stennis gives u a hold stack as soon as u ask for marshall, if I'm the first arrived, I'll get the 2000' and a charlle time, the other after gets 3000' if I haven't commenced yet...

I just thinked that it will be easier if SC (who knows who is in his way back to the mother) gives you the altitude.

Just that.

Thanks