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Ability to set Idle/AB/(other?) Detent point.


Ant0ine

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I see a lot of people are having troubles to make their physical throttle detent(s) match with the virtual detent(s) of the machine(s) they are using.

 

DCS do not give us an option to set our detent(s) point so.. Using DCS curve tool we’re limited.. Best we can do is stuff like this :

 

qnsq4co67xl21.jpg

 

Not only it isn’t accurate, but it also make the response non linear.

 

With the help of Joystick Gremlin and its developer I found a way to make things cleaner. I’ll use my Warthog throttle with the default detent for this exemple. The detent is at about 66% of the Idle to max range according to DIVIEW.

liW8jyo.png

And I’ll try to make my throttle match with the DCS F18 throttle. First thing I notice is that I reach idle virtual throttle before reaching idle physical limit. Seems to be due to the fact the game automatically put the idle detent at ~17% of our throttle range. That reduce my usable throttle range and so my accuracy so let’s solve that. I reach minimal virtual when my physical is at ~83%.

 

Edit : Seems to be normal.

 

MozKtJM.png

To solve that using Joystick Gremlin we have to reduce the Y saturation. Using the Input Viewer I note that 83% from DIVIEW reading is equal to 66% in Gremlin reading (Which goes from -100% to +100%).

UQiscaC.png

So I put the control point at 0.660 on Y. Note that we have to use Cubic Bezier Spline. Not needed to change saturation but will be needed later for the AB detent part.

KcCuVLq.png

This problem is solved. We can do the same directly via DCS. By decreasing Y saturation to 83% :

Yo1GdpP.png

Let’s see how to match physical detent with virtual detent of the F18 now.

To do that we need to determine the position of the virtual detent, so I turned on “AfterBurner detent” in game option so that my throttle is locked at MIL power.

AuHjmsi.png

And here are the result (We must check Vjoy value because our saturation have been modified to solve the idle problem) :

Fb6J90v.png

Result is 54%. And here are my physical detent position (This time we check the physical throttle value) :

HuzS79N.png

29 and 34%. Difference is important by the way.. The detent (physically) isn’t accurate at all I can feel my left throttle detent being further..

 

So, now I can place the detent point on the curve :

OISWpaA.png

Then to make the curve linear we take the detent point bezier point and place them above minimum and max point, result is as below :

sYCmL0I.png

I do the same for the other throttle :

2DtFH0Z.png

 

Good now we return to the option to turn off “AfterBurner Detent”. We’re done.

 

If desired or needed (due to throttle linkage and/or detent inaccuracy as on my throttle) we could add a small deadzone just after the physical detent to ensure we do not active AfterBurner when we hit MIL quickly/hard. To do so we have to add a second point and place it a little bit to the left of our detent point, then we use the Bezier Point to make the curve linear before and after the two point, and also to make the curve between the two point flat, which is what make the deadzone.

VRJ0Pga.png

The detent point is at X-0.300 and the second point is at X-0.320. We don’t see it well cause deadzone is small so here is the idea :

VIhOjzY.png

 

I hope this will help some people. And that ED will allow us to do that via their interface someday.

 

Edit :

 

Okay so I learned a bit more about Weight on wheel system of the Hornet thanks to this post, and realized there was more job to do!

 

The curve done earlier is perfect for the "AIR Idle" and AB detent, while in the AIR.

However when on the ground I noted the idle detent was wrong, and also a deadzone.

 

To solve that I created two mode in Gremlin, one for WOW ON (weight on the wheel, so on ground or carrier..), the other for WOW OFF (airborne).

 

Then on the WOW OFF mode I remapped my two throttle axes and made the response curve as explained earlier.

On the WOW ON however, I had to modify the curve a little to cancel the deadzone.. Which is about 10%

um0vWr2.png

My "ground idle" match perfectly with my physical warthog idle detent.

 

Now we have to find a convenient way to swap curve OnTheFly.. I'll use L_Alt+G until I start flying the Hornet seriously again and find a better way.

WOW ON to WOW OFF

oTqXjfg.png

AIxqZOT.png

WOW OFF to WOW ON

gFUb8uZ.png

RwoIw9o.png


Edited by Ant0ine
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  • 4 months later...

hey, thanks! didn't know that was possible.

 

+1 for a native DCS option to set AB detents without messing up the curves. for me only linear "curves" make ingame throttle response intuitive; i tried throttle curvatures on the hornet and the viper, but never got used to it...

 

cheers

hilok

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+1. I was able to get my curves set to match the physical detent in my throttle, but I wasn't able to do it myself because the slider system requires a PhD to figure out.

 

I'm still running non linear curves with detents set with the help of analytic tool of "F2" view :lol: :

Lift the throttles and nudge them slightly forward 'till fire is coming out of my jet's ass end:noexpression:

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+1

The ability to set detents(idle/AB) in the axis tune menu would be awesome.

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1

System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings

 

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hey folks, has anybody got a Gremlin throttle axis curve for the F-14? I'm specifically after the AB detent.

Intel 11900K/NVIDIA RTX 3090/32GB DDR4 3666/Z590 Asus Maximus motherboard/2TB Samsung EVO Pro/55" LG C9 120Hz @ 4K/Windows 10/Jotunheim Schiit external headphone amp/Virpil HOTAS + MFG Crosswind pedals

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Afterburner-Idle-Detent.jpg.56c1f0e53bded72c5e29cbde2827ca75.jpg

 

Just a simple way how to get it correctly.

 

  1. You set your throttle physically to position where is its detent for afterburner or idle.
  2. You tick the setting for which one it is.
  3. Now you have moved the adjustable scale (curves, saturation) between min-max that scales by the set detent position.

 

If you need to reset it, you will just repeat the process after unticking it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
[ATTACH]234201[/ATTACH]

 

Just a simple way how to get it correctly.

 

  1. You set your throttle physically to position where is its detent for afterburner or idle.
  2. You tick the setting for which one it is.
  3. Now you have moved the adjustable scale (curves, saturation) between min-max that scales by the set detent position.

 

If you need to reset it, you will just repeat the process after unticking it.

 

Hi, I am having trouble setting up my warthog and TQS throttles to properly match the detents etc in the sim for the Hornet and Viper.

 

I appreciate the post, but could you explain a little more please? what do you mean when you say tick the setting? And how do adjust the scales?

 

thanks

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Hi, I am having trouble setting up my warthog and TQS throttles to properly match the detents etc in the sim for the Hornet and Viper.

 

I appreciate the post, but could you explain a little more please? what do you mean when you say tick the setting? And how do adjust the scales?

 

thanks

 

What you see in Fri13 post isn't what we have in game, it is what he would like us to have.

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[ATTACH]234201[/ATTACH]

 

Just a simple way how to get it correctly.

 

  1. You set your throttle physically to position where is its detent for afterburner or idle.
  2. You tick the setting for which one it is.
  3. Now you have moved the adjustable scale (curves, saturation) between min-max that scales by the set detent position.

 

If you need to reset it, you will just repeat the process after unticking it.

 

+1 absolutely necessary!! but must be combined with linearity in between detents (every 'inch' of throttle travel yields the same amount of joystick axis change) vs. non-linear interpolation between detents (where every 'inch' of throttle travel would yield an increasingly increasing or increasingly decreasing amount of joystick axis change).

 

here's my personal experience, again, after several weeks of flying using curves on my throttle. i reverted back to "no curvature", and all i can say is wow! how natural and easy thrust control felt using the linear mode.

that seems to happen every time i am switching between curvature and linear mode on my throttle, flying the same a/c and using the same throttle over weeks: after some time i am getting somehow used to the curvature, but switching back to linear is like a blessing.

 

that doesn't seem to apply to curves for all other flight control axes, though.

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Do we need the diview software as well to do this? I cant find on the internet.....

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Ok , Antoine I have installed joystick gremlin, but my gui does not look as yours does:

 

f972f2e24bde21ecab66a7bd87e128eb.jpg

 

So I am a bit stuck without Diview and the same gremlin interface........

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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You don't need DIVIEW, use the Input viewer tool of Joystick Gremlin. Under,.. Tools.

 

Edit : I have the same Gremlin as you, I just took screenshoted the part that was important.

You have to remap your physical axes to Vjoy axes by adding a remap on your physical axes, and also add a response curve so you can edit the Vjoy axes responses.


Edited by Ant0ine
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Hi Antoine...I am a little unclear still...

 

In input viewer, for the warthog throttle in F-18 sim I get the following:

 

Idle ( IE point before lift over to cut off) 100%

Mil power ( IE, at beginning of the step detent for afterburn) -38%

 

My understanding of what I am doing is fairly limited, could you explain the steps I need to take please in more detail, as I cant figure out how to remap and add the response curve I am afraid....

 

Hopefully once I have been walked through what being done and why, I will understand better!

 

Thanks for your patience!

 

Rgds, mark

 

Edit: For the cougar throttle which is the one I really need to sort out, I have the following values ( it shows on 2 axis which is weird? 5 & 6...Why is that?)

 

Minimum = 5= -100% 6= -99%

Idle detent = 5= -66% 6= 90%

Mil = 5= 49% 6= 100%

Max = both at 100%


Edited by markturner1960

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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In input viewer, I get the following:

 

Idle ( IE point before lift over to cut off) 100%

Mil power ( IE, at beginning of the step detent for afterburn) -38%

 

My understanding of what I am doing is fairly limited, could you explain the steps I need to take please in more detail, as I cant figure out how to remap and add the response curve I am afraid....

 

Here is a short video in which I remap a physical axis (this is my input) to a virtual axis (this is my output). Then I add a response curve action to that virtual axis so that I can customize it.

 

Then I modify the curve so that the physical position of the throttle detent (-38%) match with the virtual position of the throttle detent of the aircraft you're flying. I don't remember the value for the Hornet.. So for this exemple I imagine it is at 80%, Which in Gremlin will read as -0.60.

Then I make the curve linear using the cubic bezier "point" or whatever that is called..

 

And it is finish. You can now activate the profile and in game you'll map your throttle axis in the Vjoy category, not anymore in the "name of your throttle" category.

 

 

Then if desired/needed you could add a deadzone at the detent position. I explain how to and why in the first post.


Edited by Ant0ine
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Thanks, I will give it a go.

 

BTW, how do the saturation curves work in DCS axis tune ? And what does the black square and 2 red squares represent?

 

Half the problem is not knowing what all the components do and what they are showing you...it is not in any manual they supply...

 

I have not done anything apart from use input viewer with joygremlin, however, now, I have another column in DCS controls, vjoy device - why is this and what do I do with this?

 

incidentally, regarding the issue with the cougar throttle, I just noticed that when I assign the axis in DCS controls, the first part of the range from min to idle registers as joy rz, then at the mil point, it becomes joy slider 1 and then at max point, joy slider 2......which cant be right....


Edited by markturner1960

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Thanks, I will give it a go.

 

BTW, how do the saturation curves work in DCS axis tune ? And what does the black square and 2 red squares represent?

 

Half the problem is not knowing what all the components do and what they are showing you...it is not in any manual they supply...

 

I have not done anything apart from use input viewer with joygremlin, however, now, I have another column in DCS controls, vjoy device - why is this and what do I do with this?

 

incidentally, regarding the issue with the cougar throttle, I just noticed that when I assign the axis in DCS controls, the first part of the range from min to idle registers as joy rz, then at the mil point, it becomes joy slider 1 and then at max point, joy slider 2......which cant be right....

 

You now have a Vjoy category in DCS because you installed Vjoy.. Which create a virtual joystick on your computer. Joystick Gremlin is used to tell the Vjoy what to do, using our physical joystick input (buttons/axes..).

 

Saturation Y let us limit the maximum output of an axis. For exemple if you put Saturation Y of the rudder axis to 50% then the rudder axis be limit to half left or half right rudder. With the slider box NOT ticked and without other change to deadzone nor Saturation X, the pilot would reach those 50% when you reach 100% physically.

 

4N3dVkm.png

 

Slider box is used to tell if the axis have a center or not, if it have a center the change we do to all setting will be duplicated on both left/right side of the curve. We often call that an S curve. If the box is ticked the change won't be symmetrical. We call that a J curve. We use J curve for throttle axis for exemple.

 

With Slider box not ticked, the Saturation X let us define low and high deadzone (edge deadzone, at min and max position). While the deadzone setting will be applied around the center position.

 

With Slider box ticked, the Saturation X let us define low or high (depend on inversion setting..) deadzone (edge deadzone, at min and max position). The deadzone setting will be applied at the other extreme of the axis, low or high.

 

Edit :

 

incidentally, regarding the issue with the cougar throttle, I just noticed that when I assign the axis in DCS controls, the first part of the range from min to idle registers as joy rz, then at the mil point, it becomes joy slider 1 and then at max point, joy slider 2......which cant be right....

 

First time I see that.. Pretty weird indeed.. I think we could solve the issue here by mapping both Rz and Slider 1 (And/or Slider2?) to the throttle command in DCS, but then we change the saturation settings so that the Rz axis only goes from 0 to mil, and Slider 1 from mil to max AB.


Edited by Ant0ine
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Thanks Antoine, that's a huge help.......

 

I think I have found the cause of the Cougar axis issues......I am using the realsimulator TUSBA as a USB interface and apparently, what I am seeing is a result of the way their software works with DX inputs and the DCS way of handling these and can be sorted out within the TUSBA software. Again, I will try and investigate tonight after work.

 

many thanks again,

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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