Max trap weight and weapon loadouts

Hi,

 

I wonder to what extent the max carrier landing weight is limiting the weapon loadouts in real-life operations. If I want to design a reasonably realistic mission, shall I assume that Hornets must be able to trap even if they didn’t drop/jettison any ordnance during the mission?

 

For example, suppose that Bingo level is 2,500 lbs. Then I add 800 lbs for one bolter pattern, and 1,100 lbs to comfortably get to recovery tanker. Adding empty weight of 26,100, I get approximately 30,500 lbs, excluding ordnance, during the first trap.

 

Thus I can plan up to 2,500 lbs of ordnance in order to stay below the 33,000 lbs limitation. This could be a pair of GBU-12s, a pair of Sidewinders, one fuel tank, and a pod. Should I carry more bombs or missiles, I’d have to jettison some of them before landing.

 

Having to jettison something sounds like just wasting ordnance, and hence wasting the taxpayers’ money.

 

I guess that nobody would care about losing a smart bomb or two in hypothetical WW3 scenario. I wonder how it works in less dramatic circumstances. For instance, would Hornets routinely jettison extra bombs after each patrol mission, say, over Afganistan? Alternatively, do people prefer to plan lighter loadouts that always allow safe traps?

You can land with up to 34000 lbs and still be inside the safety margins.

You can land with up to 34000 lbs and still be inside the safety margins.

Yep, I know that NATOPS allows 34000 weight with a few additional restrictions. I can re-phrase my question: should I normally plan fuel + full ordnance so that it never exceeds 34000?

 

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Ah, I didn't see that you wrote the 33,000 lbs number, sorry. Well, I'm not a pilot, so I can't comment on IRL procedures, but it seems like you're considering a scenario where you don't use any of your ordnance, if you're left with two GBU-12s and even more ordnance on top of that.

 

Consider an IRL double ugly loadout, where you have 2 bags, a MAV, 2 GBU-12s and a 1000lbs bomb to balance the 2nd bag. That already puts you way at 34,000 lbs and some change. So it becomes an issue of not risking the aircraft, I guess.

 

Dumping the bags and the 1000lbs bomb should be enough to get you light enough and it's not a terrible loss. If not, a GBU-12 is just under 22,000$ right now, so I'd guess it's an acceptable loss over risking the aircraft.

 

Tbh though, I don't know what happens if the A/G mission is a bust and pilots end up not using any of their ordnance, I'm just guessing here.

I think you shouldn't plan ahead to return with loadout. Just do your best to conserve as much fuel as possible during the flight in case of an unexpected situation and to get as much playtime possible. If you're on your way to the ship with way too much fuel that's ok, you can still dump the excess in the marshall holding pattern and get on proper trap weight.

... always take off with full fuel. Dump if you don't need it.

Maybe Lex or someone can pipe in if I'm wrong. But I think it is very rare that anyone jettisons even fuel pods. Those things may not be particularly expensive but there are only so many on the carrier and I don't think it's all that easy to get more brought out.

 

I see people in DCS that as a normal practice dump the fuel pods as soon as they are empty. I just don't think that is normal at all. In fact I don't recall ever seeing a hornet trap without one.

you are correct. Both Hornet pilots who frequent this forum say they never saw a bag being dumped, even when deployed in a combat cruise. Of course in a full blown war scenario with dogfights and BVR engagements every other day the reality might be entirely different. But that hasn't been the case for these past few decades.

Yes, dump the fuel in the tank, not the tank itself. :)

Yes, dump the fuel in the tank, not the tank itself. :)

What would be the process for returning to the carrier in an emergency? Eg, take off and 2 minutes after you need to land due to engine failure or something and even after dumping fuel, you're still heavy due to ordnance. Would this scenario warrant jettisoning some ordnance/fuel tanks?

I’d assume in emergency situations you would get rid of all ordinance, maybe even including the tanks, if it means saving the airframe. But if saving the airframe isn’t an option then the only priority at that point is saving yourself.

Edited June 26, 2019 by bennyboy9800

Both Hornet pilots who frequent this forum say they never saw a bag being dumped, even when deployed in a combat cruise.

Thank you. By analogy, I guess that GBUs and JDAMs aren't dumped if they weren't used during the mission?

 

 

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What would be the process for returning to the carrier in an emergency? Eg, take off and 2 minutes after you need to land due to engine failure or something and even after dumping fuel, you're still heavy due to ordnance. Would this scenario warrant jettisoning some ordnance/fuel tanks?

"'emergency jettison" and its massive yellow button comes to mind

"'emergency jettison" and its massive yellow button comes to mind

That's what I was thinking, at least in worst case scenarios or alternatively selectively dropping some stuff. Normally, I don't jettison anything during a mission, but I guess if the pilot's or the jet's safety is in question, it's better to lose the ordnance than risk it.

That's what I was thinking, at least in worst case scenarios or alternatively selectively dropping some stuff. Normally, I don't jettison anything during a mission, but I guess if the pilot's or the jet's safety is in question, it's better to lose the ordnance than risk it.

"emergency jettison" keeps the wingtip and body AA loadout in case of a Midway surprise (I think to remember), btw

Emergency Jett would be if engine problems on launch and to late to abort take off. Select jett would be after airborne and established straight and level flight but had issues keeping level. you could than (in my opinion) dump ordinance first to try and maintain level flight to work issue but holding on to as much fuel as possible till ready to land.