Are the new updates planned to take into account night warfare and laser coding setti

" So, I will have to try study what is exactly happening "in game" compared to what happens "in reality"."

"Really want them to bring the systems on this chopper much closer to reality."

What?

So... Who filled you in on the "reality" you're after? Do you fly these things IRL? Holy cow dude... I've been arguing with a Shark pilot? My apologies sir...

Seriously though :)...

"Yeah, I hear that, but also I have been told"

I just told you that the answer to that puzzle I provided you above will help you... and you just side stepped the "reality" of it, then continued your quest for "un-reality".

OK Man :)...

Lol, unless you know how to change the "Gamma Curve of the Universe", I question your reality.

Also I question the reality of how the Vikhr "laser cone" is being simulated in game. Just thinking about it, you shouldn't be able to launch a stream of missiles and keep control of them. Every time you launched, the cone would have to reset to catch the last launched missile, and you would lose the others.

The way they are doing it "in game", it looks like it's all just terminal laser point reflection, with the missile just set to spin around a little to make it look realistic.

Also, you guys claim this chopper was "OH SO REALISTIC" before, can you show me a pic of it carrying Kh-25MLs?

Oh wait! They're on the Ka-52. Imagine that.

x

Then don't try to figure it out.

But... the fact that you refuse speaks volumes about why you want crap like FLIR. Laser energy bounces off targets day or night BTW.

Seems to me that you aren't willing to learn how to deploy the Shark so you perceive a list of "unacceptable weaknesses" and have decided that they all need to be addressed so you can fly the Shark at night.

All I can tell you is that I was playing with a group of friends for a while and we would make our own missions. At one point someone made a few night missions and I was like "Damn... can't fly the Shark then..." but the person insisted... so I did. Now I've learned more. One thing specifically...

The Shark is damn near as capable at night as it is in the day.

Also... The trick I was trying to teach you above also works in the day so I'm not sure what you're on about regarding the gamma curve of the universe...

Just thinking about it, you shouldn't be able to launch a stream of missiles and keep control of them. Every time you launched, the cone would have to reset to catch the last launched missile, and you would lose the others.

No, you can launch multiple vihkr's IRL, your just making stuff up.

Btw the missile spirals because it's control surface is only on one axis, has nothing to do with this "cone" you keep mentioning.

Hmm, I remember reading LONG ago it was a laser cone, and that the Vikhr was shot into it ( hence why we have to have to have the movable adapter on the pylon ). Actually, there is someone else on the forum talking about a "cone" years ago, but maybe we were wrong. Now, the only thing I can find is something about a laser grid above the target. I'll have to consult the guru's in the Russian forums. Very interested in exactly how this works. I'm sure someone there can quote a Russian book on it.

 

All I can tell you is that I was playing with a group of friends for a while and we would make our own missions. At one point someone made a few night missions and I was like "Damn... can't fly the Shark then..." but the person insisted... so I did. Now I've learned more. One thing specifically...

 

The Shark is damn near as capable at night as it is in the day.

 

Yeah, but to me, that's just that old "gamma trick" people use in FPS games, where you turn up your gamma, until night becomes day. In real life, you turn up the contrast on a black screen, you just get a brighter black screen. I'm sure you can get the camera to suck in a little more light, but I wouldn't think that much.

And to me, it's more about being "modern technology". I'm not into old stuff. Surely, if they can put a President-S on this heli, which seems to be from a prototype even further along than the Ka-50sh, surely they can put a decent Gen III FLIR on it.

The laser guidance cone exists, but that's not why the missile flies a spiral path.

The laser guidance cone exists, but that's not why the missile flies a spiral path.

Well, I asked the question in the Russian forums, so maybe someone in there can give a precise answer on exactly how this works. That's where all the producers seem to hang out. Years ago, we were told it bounced around a shrinking cone.

All I can get now off the internet is something about a grid above the target. And long ago posts that still think the old way.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=245129

If anyone's interested.

Just remember that the laser starts out at the nose of the aircraft and is only a couple of inches wide and can't get any narrower than that. In other words, the cone gets larger as you move away from the launcher vehicle. Well, in the case of the Vikhr, the cone "reshapes" to maintain a roughly 6 meter grid at the missile. The aircraft knows how far away the missile is and keeps the cone at 6 meters all the way to the target. In this sense, it does make it look like the cone is "tightening" as the missile gets farther away, and I suppose it is, but the missile just knows that it is trying to stay at the center of a 6 meter circle.

Beam riding missiles are basically impossible to fool or jam, but it also means that you can't buddy lase them because they have to get into the beam very quickly or they just go ballistic and get lost. It also means that beam riders fly a straight line to their target, at least compared to things like Hellfire which look for the reflected laser energy from a target and are able to fly different (typically lofting) flight paths.

My understanding:

The beam is modulated so that the signal progressively changes from the centre to the outside, and the beam width is adjusted as the missile flies away to keep the circle the missile is flying in the same size (so the cone / beam tightens as time passes, but at the point the missile is, it stays a circle of the same size)

The control surfaces are set up so the missile rolls as it flies, which means constantly turning 'right' from it's point of view actually causes a spiral relative to the ground (my guess is that the missile actually naturally turns "out", and the control surface overcomes that so that the missile doesn't end up settling into the dead centre of the beam and obscuring any previous launched missiles view of the beam. It would also mean that if there were 2 sensors to allow differential positioning, and the missile was following a beam that's being slewed hard & so rotating entirely on one side of the beam, no control input would effectively equal negative control input to track the disk).

So now all you need is one or more sensors that look backwards and find from the modulation where on the circle the missile is. If that's at the outside of the circle it turns in hard, if it's at the middle it doesn't.

Because it's rolling the missiles control surface alternately controls the vertical position in the circle (beam), and horizontal, so a single surface and detector is all that's needed.

It also means that if you have 2 missiles riding the same beam, the second won't end up constantly blocking the first one's sensor, because they never fly a constant course.

"Yeah, but to me, that's just that old "gamma trick" people use in FPS games"

What is? Using NVG? Targeting enemies in towns under street lights? Launching flare rockets?

I'm not sure which assumptions you've made while you still refuse to take my advice and learn how to do what I'm asking you to do but... Alright man... you do you :). I'd prefer that you learn the REAL strengths and weaknesses of the chopper so that if we ever end up on the same team I can hope you're capable, but... You refuse. Instead you just keep saying you refuse to buy until they put FLIR on the shark.

OK.

Thanks guys. S.E. Bulba replied on the Russian forums as well, so now I'm trying to read what the Russkies are saying in other forums to try and understand the vhikr system as well as I can. Pretty interesting.

EDIT:

My understanding:

 

The beam is modulated so that the signal progressively changes from the centre to the outside, and the beam width is adjusted as the missile flies away to keep the circle the missile is flying in the same size (so the cone / beam tightens as time passes, but at the point the missile is, it stays a circle of the same size)

 

The control surfaces are set up so the missile rolls as it flies, which means constantly turning 'right' from it's point of view actually causes a spiral relative to the ground (my guess is that the missile actually naturally turns "out", and the control surface overcomes that so that the missile doesn't end up settling into the dead centre of the beam and obscuring any previous launched missiles view of the beam. It would also mean that if there were 2 sensors to allow differential positioning, and the missile was following a beam that's being slewed hard & so rotating entirely on one side of the beam, no control input would effectively equal negative control input to track the disk).

 

So now all you need is one or more sensors that look backwards and find from the modulation where on the circle the missile is. If that's at the outside of the circle it turns in hard, if it's at the middle it doesn't.

 

Because it's rolling the missiles control surface alternately controls the vertical position in the circle (beam), and horizontal, so a single surface and detector is all that's needed.

 

It also means that if you have 2 missiles riding the same beam, the second won't end up constantly blocking the first one's sensor, because they never fly a constant course.

Yeah, that's about the same I can find after searching Russian forums all day. Thanks to all who gave info. At least I know what info has been released now. Much clearer.

Not sure about adding later missiles to the same cone. Couldn't find anything on that.

For one, the cone would have shrunk somewhat after a few seconds, so less chance of capturing another missile in the cone. Though I guess it would still be possible depending on how accurate the Shkval is at launching missiles into it. I guess any other targets would have to be at about the same range as the original target. Relock?

Technically, all lasers and light beams in generall are cones. It is impossible for the beam not to disperse over distance.

And the Brightness and Contrast knobs are there in the real helicopter. Guess what they are ued for? Turning up the Brightness and Contrast in combination with NVG's is a means for you to SPOT the targets. As mentioned earlier, it does nothing for the actual helicopters targetting systems.

The laser beam doesnt care if it's light or dark.

If you shine the laser on something, the missile will hit it. Even if you close your eyes and are blindfolded.

Technically, all lasers and light beams in generall are cones. It is impossible for the beam not to disperse over distance.

And the Brightness and Contrast knobs are there in the real helicopter. Guess what they are ued for? Turning up the Brightness and Contrast in combination with NVG's is a means for you to SPOT the targets. As mentioned earlier, it does nothing for the actual helicopters targetting systems.

 

The laser beam doesnt care if it's light or dark.

If you shine the laser on something, the missile will hit it. Even if you close your eyes and are blindfolded.

Kh-25ML - maybe,

Vikhr - no, that's not how it works.

(& yes, all laser beams are cones, but the whole point of a targeting / range finding laser is that its beam spreads many orders of magnitude less than a common 'light beam')

Yeah, thanks Weta. Between you and S.E. Bulba, it's a perfect explanation of how the Vikhr targeting works.

No problem :)

I do not understand. What do you concider wrong with my post?

Are you saying the brightness and contrast knobs would affect the missiles ability to hit in the darkness of the night?

Are you saying the missile will not hit whatever the laser shines on?

Or are you saying that the missile cares if the pilot is blindfolded or not?

*confused* :D

Don't be confused - generally I agree with you :)

What I was saying is that a Vihkr will not hit whatever a laser shines on - that's not how their guidance system works (though a Kh-25ML would because that is how they work).

(& now you mention it - if there's no lock in the dark, the pilot has to steer the missile to the target, so a blindfold would mean a miss :) )