y2kiah's A-10C cockpit build

You could maybe put an LED in each pushbutton. Make it like a cube of sorts, with a piece on the bottom to actually push the microswitch. Or mount all of the LEDs on a PCB and put a rod on one corner of each pushbutton that extends through the PCB to push on the switches below.

EDIT: Attachment added

Pushbutton Idea.psd

Hi, I'm also going to build the CDU panel. My plan is to have a factory make all the buttons on a single silicone sheet, like what you'd normally find inside a calculator or TV remote. They can make the characters on top of each button transmissive. And I will use gold plated traces (button pads) beneath the conductive rubber pads at the bottom of each button cap. Take a look at the back of my panel:

I have two options:

A. Arrange one ultra-bright LED beside each button pad to light it up from inside.

B. Engrave shallow slots along the dividing grids of all the buttons and embed EL wires in row and columns to form some shining grids, illuminating the lower transmissive halves of the buttons and making them glow.

Anyway, what does a CDU with back lighting on looks like? Are we missing some parts which should have been lit?

What type of display are you planning to use for the screen? I'm working on a 3.8" as well as a 3.5" TFT with a bunch of electronics.

I've also noticed the frames around the alphanumeric areas, I thought those were just white stripes painted on the surface. How high are they? Thanks.

Any chance of getting a copy of these or a link to manufacturer if that's the case ?

I was planning to make them myself. If so, no problem I'll make you a set. Looks like Alex_rcpilot might have an option we may all be able to take advantage of? We'll see what he can set up.

My plan is to have a factory make all the buttons on a single silicone sheet, like what you'd normally find inside a calculator or TV remote. They can make the characters on top of each button transmissive. And I will use gold plated traces (button pads) beneath the conductive rubber pads at the bottom of each button cap.

 

What type of display are you planning to use for the screen? I'm working on a 3.8" as well as a 3.5" TFT with a bunch of electronics.

 

I've also noticed the frames around the alphanumeric areas, I thought those were just white stripes painted on the surface. How high are they? Thanks.

Nice work on the CDU!

Lucky man, I imagine there must be a factory on every corner in China, like Starbucks here. We..... don't really have factories here anymore :-) We gave them all away. Tell me more about the button pad idea. Is it kind of like this one? That pad has LEDs in the center of each pad, sounds like a perfect way to backlight the caps if we could get a PCB designed using the same method!

I am thinking TFT screen also, running the visuals of the screen on a PC. For me, I ONLY consider this an option if it is not the main sim PC running the peripheral visuals. A second PC on the LAN would have to run the visuals, in a BSVP-like fashion. I'm also thinking about using VFD character screens instead, ever since it was suggested earlier in this thread for the EMWU panel. That might be a little trickier to find the right part, or fit multiple parts into the given space. The LCD/VGA route would certainly be easier and give more control over the screen output to make it look genuine. On the other hand, making a self-contained unit with its own microcontroller, rendering its own visuals, and hooked up via ethernet only (not relying on any connection to PC directly) seems very desirable to me.

The frames around keys look raised to me in a couple pictures I have of the unit. They don't look raised in DCS because they are just textured on. I just raised them to the same level as the key tops (I think 1/16"). My plan is to use polystrene plastic strips from the local hobby shop and glue to the acrylic plate. Once painted, they will blend perfectly.

y2kiah.....Excellent work your doing there. Its really working on my bug to get some sort of cockpit work started, but if you dont mind I have a question for you about using the Arduino for an interface.

I have 1 mega on order but after reading a bit I also ordered a "Teensy" , I'm curious about your thoughts on this http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/

I understand that your going to go with an ethernet shield, but I was leaning towards the usb route which can be an issue with the arduino since it does not support usb natively but the "Teensy" does. What do you think?

FYI, if you ever want some material tested with a YAG 1064nm 40watt diode laser, I operate the one we use here to engrave stainless steel. I'm always looking for new uses for this thing.

Looks like Alex_rcpilot might have an option we may all be able to take advantage of?

I wish I could be certain, but it really depends on want we want them to be like. If we're talking about silicone, then I might be in for it. I will try to have some made, but first I need to verify some dimensions.

Lucky man, I imagine there must be a factory on every corner in China, like Starbucks here. We..... don't really have factories here anymore :-) We gave them all away.

lol, having lots of factories around certainly has some advantages when it comes to pit building or stuff like that. But there's also a downside to this. I think we all know what that is.

Tell me more about the button pad idea. Is it kind of like this one? That pad has LEDs in the center of each pad, sounds like a perfect way to backlight the caps if we could get a PCB designed using the same method!

wow this goes far beyond my initial thought. I was thinking about using smaller conductor pads and solid rubber pads, and putting LEDs beside them, which for sure won't be sitting at the center of the buttons. I guess they could do better because they made conductive rubber rings instead of pads? I do remember the guy from the silicone company mentioning something like backlighted buttons, don't knwo exactly what it looked like. But I'll have this figured out next time I pay him a visit.

I am thinking TFT screen also, running the visuals of the screen on a PC. For me, I ONLY consider this an option if it is not the main sim PC running the peripheral visuals. A second PC on the LAN would have to run the visuals, in a BSVP-like fashion. I'm also thinking about using VFD character screens instead, ever since it was suggested earlier in this thread for the EMWU panel. That might be a little trickier to find the right part, or fit multiple parts into the given space. The LCD/VGA route would certainly be easier and give more control over the screen output to make it look genuine. On the other hand, making a self-contained unit with its own microcontroller, rendering its own visuals, and hooked up via ethernet only (not relying on any connection to PC directly) seems very desirable to me.

VFD was simply too expensive for me. As I later added, one piece at the right size would cost up to 75$, I simply grabbed a cheap LCD module for 7.4$ and ran home. :doh: Besides, neither module provided enough space for the DSUZ fastner and the button right next to the display window. Still have to figure out a solution.

CDU screen solution pretty much depends on how ED exports the text data. If they handle it like they did with ABRIS, then I'm toasted. At this size, it's very difficult to find a TFT larger than 480*320, most modules are 320*240. For a display to work as an external monitor, it requires a minimum resolution of 640*480. So I'm going with probably the only solution, which is using a microcontroller to generate a visual text UI. The controller also accepts a text data feed, which could be one or multiple of the following options: ethernet, USB, RS-485, IIC... Personally I will put USB and high-speed RS-485 on my board.

Size of the screen has been a major headache for me, no s**ting, it really is.:cry: If you look at data from various sources or take measurement from the screen shots, you will see that the window size is so wrong for off-the-shelf TFT's. Data from the internet shows the screen size is 3.25*2.60". And screenshot from ED shows a very close size of 3.25*2.50". I went with the latter result, And found it extremely close to the active area of a 3.9" TFT. The text area however, doesn't take up so much space, and a 3.8" TFT will also do the perfect job when its steel bezels are properly concealed.

Then I started searching for distributors for two weeks and hardly found any company selling 3.9" TFT's, I was lucky enough to have bought two used 3.8" 240*320(portriat) PDA screens whose display areas were 3.15*2.36". But the ordeal was far from over. The FPC connector was a kind of high-density 0.3mm interlaced 61pin component. Each tiny connector alone would cost nearly 6$. Yet there are many strange signals found in the datasheet which are very much unlike regular TFT's.

As a contingency plan, I ordered a 3.5" TFT yesterday. If stuff don't work out with the 3.8", I'm gonna have to scale down the text a little bit to keep the project running. By then the CDU will look disproportioned, but that's the best I can do.

The frames around keys look raised to me in a couple pictures I have of the unit. They don't look raised in DCS because they are just textured on. I just raised them to the same level as the key tops (I think 1/16"). My plan is to use polystrene plastic strips from the local hobby shop and glue to the acrylic plate. Once painted, they will blend perfectly.

I think we're both hoping someone with definitive data could magically show up and generously offer some critical dimensions to help us make this unit more accurate. In my drawings I've made the button caps and the frame stick out 2mm(approx. 1/12.7") above the panel surface. As I can't get ahold of polystrene plastic stripes, I will probably have them sliced off from the side of an acrylic sheet, and somehow glued and painted.

BTW, a 3.5" TFT has a display area of 2.76*2.07", which will look a little guly when fitted into the CDU window.

I also ordered a "Teensy" , I'm curious about your thoughts on this http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/

That's a very cool board, I like that it's a HID device. I might pick one up to check it out, maybe use it for my keyboard/trackball panel.

The reasons I don't choose USB for general pit IO are many. First, the number of available USB ports is limiting. You can get a USB hub, and for HID devices it may work fine, but you're going to have a LOT of cables to plug and I think you'd need a lot of hubs, maybe even have to daisy chain hubs.

Second, using HID for any kind of output would require at least one more layer of software, and more difficult on the programming side than TCP/IP or serial. Whereas with TCP you can open a socket right from a scripting language like Lua and send information to/from the microcontroller directly, with a usb hid you probably can't (unless a library exists that I don't know about). The sim's ability to use OS recognized hardware for input events is great, but you're going to have a LOT of devices, and there aren't any similar output events with this "front door" method. That's why for general pit I/O, I think the back door is a better solution.

FYI, if you ever want some material tested with a YAG 1064nm 40watt diode laser, I operate the one we use here to engrave stainless steel. I'm always looking for new uses for this thing.

Sweet, I might take you up on that some time. Sounds like it would cut through 1/16" aluminum plate like butter!

Those are some compelling reasons I admit, but sadly sounds a bit out of my current understanding :)

This is my first attempt at creating an input method for a simulator so I'm in the "baby step" phase, so I'll avoid hijacking your thread by asking how to do that, and leave it for another post.

But I'm certainly going to be following your progress since my Arduino Mega will be here tomorrow (rubbing hands together)

Actually the laser is not happy cutting anything, although I have cut thin aluminum and the cut quality and detail is impressive.

Another FYI, I also operate our lathe here so keep that in mind also. Maybe we can trade services. Tips on how to implement for machining/laser.

Hi guys, a major advantage which USB HID has over "backdoor" access is responsiveness due to DirectInput (a component of DirectX) support. LUA export updates once per frame, and I don't know how long a frame takes, perhaps it's a variable period which is not considered real-time.

So if you wanna hook up pots / hall sensors as stick inputs, or if you'd like sim functions to respond to your button press with no lag when split second counts, you definitely wanna use USB HID.

to Dantx101:

The Arduino Mega board looks neat. But it's not capable of being configured as an HID because USB connection is handled off the microcontroller by the FT232R, which is an application-specific IC designed as a USB CDC class device.

However, you might be interested in PanelBuilder's solution which involves LUA export also through a virtual COM port. A software running on the PC channels the LUA socket with the virtual COM port, making it possible for your ATmega1280 to directly receive the exported data. all you have to do is parsing it.

Did you also order an ICSP programmer? If you did, you may use IAR or CodeVisionAVR to write firmware in C language, or use AVR Studio to develop it with assembly. Good luck.:thumbup:

Alex.....thanks for info. I also found that the Arduino is not inherently HID compatible, of course I found that out after I had ordered them :)

Thats how I found out that the "Teensy" is HID right out of the box.

I'm hoping I can get a switch matrix going with that and possibly do some of the complicated processes with the Arduino and port them to the Teensy.

I'm planning on using AVR studio with the Teensy, but the Arduino is very easy to program and there are tons of pre-made programs available that may only need a tweek or 2 to work with. With the Teensy at $20 and HID I really cant think of anything out there thats cheaper. Maybe not easier to work with but getting things working are half the fun to me.

It's assuredly going to be a learning experience, but these things are fascinating to me. Its getting to the point that so many options are out there that your imagination is the limitation, so lets find out how limiting they can be to me (chuckle)

Oh man you're gonna have so much fun.....at least I can promise you that. lol!

I check the Teensy board before searching for Arduino. It must have taken the author quite some time to develop Teensy because the AVR used on his board doesn't have a built-in USB module. He did it by simulating the exact USB waveform and implementing the USB protocol with two GPIO's.

You may use SPI interface to establish highspeed synchronous communication between two boards, and it's quite interesting. And if you have problems regarding these boards, I may be able to help coz I had been using AVR with my projects for years before they ran short on supply in China not long ago.:)

Just got a circuit built with a MAX7219 connected to my mega, allows up to 64 individual LED outputs using only 3 pins! The ICs can be cascaded for even more outputs! I'm using it with 7-segs right now, for the comm and USB panels. I will also drive all indicator lamps in the pit with this method. I'll post a vid early next week when I'm able to.

I guess now I can be certain with transmissive buttons. 'cause I found this yesterday:

That's a conductive rubber ring, and I can put an LED inside the cylinder space within.:)

I figured even if I got ahold of some DZUS fasteners, I would still have too much trouble with receptacle strips to continue with. So I set off seeking for a tradeoff. These are the closest I could find, but I guess they're temporarily useless for me as the screw heads are simply too short:

And these are the rare 3.8" TFT screens from Sharp that will be used in my CDU(couldn't disclude touch screen when I bought them):

Chips at the bottom are from Samsung, and they're dedicated to drive gate-driver-less 240*320 TFT screens.

Finding a connector for such type of FPC is a pure agony. Yet I managed to get it.

There're still some chips on the way. I'll be able to design the hardware for both 3.8" and 3.5" TFT's. I will post more progress when it's available.

Can someone explain why I seem to be having so much trouble with this?

 

I've seen on this and several posts people simply saying "the DZUS fasteners". DZUS is a company, and they make thousands of quick connects, none of which seem to me to match the pictures I've seen of military panels (including the ones on this thread).

 

Does anyone have the actual part # for these fasteners, or better yet a link to a supplier?

 

Thanks guys. Pit building is an amazing hobby!

Here is a supplier I am not sure what he has in stock at this time normaly he gets a group order together for a discount you will see that the rail is ver expensive

http://temp.aviationsimulationgroupcom.officelive.com/Aircraft_Panel_Fasteners.aspx

One other option is a imitation screw he sells http://temp.aviationsimulationgroupcom.officelive.com/Dzus.aspx

I bought 4 feet of 3/8" round aluminum bar stock from onlinemetalsupply for something like $4. I should be able to get about 120 screws fabricated out of it. After I cut the bar into 1/4" lengths, I'll put a hole through each one and countersink for a 1/4" or #10 screw, whichever fits better. It will be a LOT of tedious work, but SO much cheaper than paying $.72 per screw. I have a feeling this will be one of the last things I will do for the pit.

EWMU, Electric

The EWMU panel, still haven't found the perfect display for it yet. Basically I'm looking for a bright 16x2 character LCD that fits the space. Also, the text color has to be bright (like green, white, blue or yellow) with a dark background. It's easy to find the reverse with dark text and bright background, but that just won't do. Some 14-seg LEDs or dot matrix LEDs would work too, but those tend to be expensive. Any suggestions?

Next - the electric pwr panel. This was just a mirror image of the Aux Lighting panel, with different cutouts of course.

And finally, another peak at the whole pit. This is being built piece by piece, I'm not just throwing polygons together here. This way, when it comes time to build I will have an exact parts manifest and cut schedule in the model, and I will avoid nasty little fitting problems that pop up during construction.

amazing work,..looking verry professional, you should think about a sales version of the modules!)

big up from my side

Environment Panel

As you can see in the picture, the two round dial instruments will be routed directly into the panel's light plate. Micro servos will sit directly behind the back plate to turn the dials. The raised bezel is a two-piece, the clear cover sandwiched between them. The instrument face plates will be done with a PC printer.

The two rotary switches at the bottom of the panel have engraved discs that I will fabricate and glue to the bottom of each knob.

The last issue is the toggle switch at the bottom of the panel. The 4 position switch required would be very difficult to find and probably very expensive unless found used. Instead, I'll plan to use a simple pushbutton which toggles each mode (off, auto, man cold, man hot). I'll put an LED next to Auto, Cold and Hot labels on the panel to indicate which mode is active.

The whole panel is pretty much for show, it won't be used much when flying in DCS Warthog, even if the switches are interfaced. Though, with the new smart bomb capabilities of the A-10C, flying at higher altitudes will become more common, so maybe I can play pretend with these controls :)

The whole panel is pretty much for show, it won't be used much when flying in DCS Warthog, even if the switches are interfaced. Though, with the new smart bomb capabilities of the A-10C, flying at higher altitudes will become more common, so maybe I can play pretend with these controls :)

I plan to hook up one or more fans to this panel and actually use some of the switches that will be on it to turn those on/off and adjust the speed. I may even hook up one of those small space heaters as my office gets pretty chilly in winter. :D

Oh yeah, I was evening toying with the idea of adding thermometers to this panel that can monitor the temp in the enclosed spaces of the pit and have fans for cooling those areas too. It's not that critical, but I thought it would be a nice way to use the panel since most of it's functions are not modeled in the sim.

The EWMU panel, still haven't found the perfect display for it yet. Basically I'm looking for a bright 16x2 character LCD that fits the space. Also, the text color has to be bright (like green, white, blue or yellow) with a dark background. It's easy to find the reverse with dark text and bright background, but that just won't do. Some 14-seg LEDs or dot matrix LEDs would work too, but those tend to be expensive. Any suggestions?

They are available:

From:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9052

Not sure how they fit size-wise vs the real thing. (or how clear they are to read...)

And your work is impressive!

From:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9052

:megalol: Did you write "hello world" first?

I've ran out of ideas for the EWMU display. I guess I shall lower my standards just a little bit to save my pocket.

:megalol: Did you write "hello world" first?

Haha, nice :D

I was bored and just had a quick search and found this:

http://www.tecpro.net/Downloads/Character_Displays.pdf

Gives a list of their different character LCD sizes (including the character sizes). They actually do a 16 x 2 with 4.84 x 9.66mm characters!